D130 or E130 JBL ?

Jack Dougherty · Post by **Jack Dougherty** » 22 Apr 2014 10:58 am

What's your preference?

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 22 Apr 2014 12:33 pm

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 22 Apr 2014 2:15 pm

Jack:

Depends what amp you are running with the speaker. The E130 is a beast that can handle a lot of power. The D130 can only handle 25 watts and the D130F can only handle 50 watts. Correct me if my calculations are wrong?

If you had a JBL D130 in a Nashville 400 it would blow if you pushed it. I believe Harltley Peave developed the Black Widow structure to use in higher power steel amps. However, there are guys that still love the D130. I had a Webb with a E130 and thought it was not as pleasing as a K-130. My 2 cents...

Lenny

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 22 Apr 2014 3:21 pm

I replaced the two 12" D120F JBL's in a Fender Twin Reverb with one 15" JBL K130. Made a big difference for steel, and could handle the power of the Twin.

Daryl Thisdelle · Post by **Daryl Thisdelle** » 22 Apr 2014 3:23 pm

Hope I can chime in here. Gerry Walker of the Stereo Steel has a pile of JBL 130's and 140's and re-cones them so you do not have to worry about blowing speakers. I have in my system a 130 and a 140 . 140 handling the lower tones. The 130 handling the higher tones. I need a full sounding amp, that's why I use the SS. Quite the round sound I get. I play through a Williams 700 Uni-12 all wood guitar and it gives such tone that the Walker SS system really brings out the best sound of the guitar, plus the Alumintone p/u for me is #1

Daryl

Jack Dougherty · Post by **Jack Dougherty** » 22 Apr 2014 3:52 pm

Thanks all....my mistake....ment the K 130......want to replace the Black widows in my SS for the more powerful JBl.

Brett Lanier · Post by **Brett Lanier** » 22 Apr 2014 4:16 pm

Daryl Thisdelle wrote:Hope I can chime in here. Gerry Walker of the Stereo Steel has a pile of JBL 130's and 140's and re-cones them so you do not have to worry about blowing speakers. I have in my system a 130 and a 140 . 140 handling the lower tones. The 130 handling the higher tones. I need a full sounding amp, that's why I use the SS. Quite the round sound I get. I play through a Williams 700 Uni-12 all wood guitar and it gives such tone that the Walker SS system really brings out the best sound of the guitar, plus the Alumintone p/u for me is #1

Daryl

I have a couple d130's that he reconed and they're great, I've beat on them pretty hard and they've held up fine. Not sure how that works though since the voice coil gap is only so wide. I thought a wider gap is what makes the higher wattage handling possible.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 23 Apr 2014 2:41 am

Jack, try my Eminence EPS-15C neodymium magnet speaker at the next club jam. It was designed to be a direct replacement for the Peavey 1501-4 speaker, which was designed by Peavey to be a high power copy of the JBL.

When I first tried the Eminence speaker, the first thing that hit me was "this sounds exactly like the JBL K130 I had in my old Twin Reverb".

Jack Dougherty · Post by **Jack Dougherty** » 23 Apr 2014 4:43 am

Ok Jack...sounds like a plan...thanks
JD

Gary Reed · Post by **Gary Reed** » 23 Apr 2014 5:07 am

Jack Stoner,
Hi Jack,
I'm thinking of placing the EPS-15C behind the Peavey ValveKing 100.
Think that's a workable idea?

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 23 Apr 2014 8:19 am

The difference is the magnet. You can rebuild the D and K series to any classic JBL specs you want. The E series is not alnico as far as I know. Different sound altogether. Same with the neo magnets. They are great in many ways but absolutely not the same sound .

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 23 Apr 2014 9:37 am

yes to the K130

the d130 and the d130f. wider gap in the F. developed by harvey gerst. also a black damping material painted on the edge. both keep the cone from twisting at high vol.

problem with all them.....i do not think there is a REAL JBL recone kit for any of them. lots of imitations, but not real. makes a big difference. same for altecs.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 23 Apr 2014 9:46 am

Another vote for the K130 here.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 23 Apr 2014 10:38 am

To over-simplify, the functional difference is in the voice coil gap, which was gradually expanded from the original D130 hifi speaker in the D130F, then again through the K and E series, the former being prone to voice coil destruction in the gap from overheating and deformation at high current levels, the latter being capable of taking pretty much what you throw at it for hours at a time.

Jack Dougherty · Post by **Jack Dougherty** » 23 Apr 2014 12:09 pm

Also hearing and reading about the Eminence EPS 15 C.....any other thoughts?

Larry Robinson · Post by **Larry Robinson** » 23 Apr 2014 1:36 pm

The last time I had a JBL D120F re-coned by authorized JBL service center, I was informed the only JBL kits available were the "E" series. Price for 120 and 130 speakers was around $279 each. The places that re-cone JBL speakers for $100 are using after market kits. My experience is if it isn't a true JBL re-cone kit, it isn't a true JBL. The speaker is the heart of the amplifier. There are other speakers besides JBL that are good. However, JBL sound is the sought after sound. If you want original JBL re-cone, be prepared to pay. Sensitivity of JBL speakers is one of the reasons JBL sound so good.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Apr 2014 2:59 pm

Jack Dougherty wrote:Thanks all....my mistake....ment the K 130......want to replace the Black widows in my SS for the more powerful JBl.

The JBL is not "more powerful". Their efficiency may be rated slightly better than the BW's, but I think any output difference would likely be barely noticeable.

James Murray · Post by **James Murray** » 23 Apr 2014 4:00 pm

I found a new in the box e130 last year and personally have never played a speaker that sounds as good. But it sure is heavy.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 23 Apr 2014 11:27 pm

The JBL is not "more powerful". Their efficiency may be rated slightly better than the BW's, but I think any output difference would likely be barely noticeable.

Here's the facts as objectively and scientifically determined:

JBL K120 12" 8 ohms 1W@1m = ~ 101dB
JBL K130 15" 8 ohms 1W@1m = ~ 103dB

JBL E130 12" 8 ohms 1W@1m = ~ 103dB
JBL E130 15" 8 ohms 1W@1m = ~ 105dB

Telonics 12" 8 ohms 1W@1m = ~ 99.3db
Telonics 15" 8 ohms 1W@1m = ~ 99.1db

The best of the wide-bandwidth, "high-efficiency" BW 15" speakers rates ~ 99.5dB (most of the line tests between 89dB and 98dB) AT ONE WATT, but as higher power levels are applied the BW design compresses badly, ultimately refusing to get any louder no matter how hard you crank your amp. Very annoying.

Meanwhile, none of the Celestion speakers and only one model of the Eminence products manages to test at 100dB, but they all lose an octave or more of usable frequency response in the high end and half an octave in the lows, while adding a boatload of distortion in comparison with other marques of guitar speakers, including EV, Gauss, Altec, Telonics or BW guitar speakers, and JBL still surpasses in every category.

One final note: Without doing any actual research first, it is easy to imagine, and thus to haul off and state that a difference of a few decibels is "barely noticeable" but any audiologist will tell you that many people can hear a change of only one decibel, and there is no question that a 3dB change is clearly noticeable to most people, even in a noisy environment.

More importantly, the hard cold physics of the guitar amp and speaker efficiency issue is that for every 6dB increase in volume a full doubling of amplifier power is required. That's roughly the difference between what a good designer can get from a pair of 6V6's and a pair of 6L6's. Think about that before you spend your money...

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 24 Apr 2014 8:15 pm

The difference is the magnet. You can rebuild the D and K series to any classic JBL specs you want. The E series is not alnico as far as I know. Different sound altogether. Same with the neo magnets. They are great in many ways but absolutely not the same sound .

The E series are heavier than the K and D series speakers because the magnet is ceramic, not alnico. The E cone is the same as the K series. Yes, "the difference is in "the magnet" but not like you think:

The static flux that surrounds the voice coil in the gap is the one and only place that the magnet affects the performance of the cone. There is no element of frequency response or "voicing" of any kind to be found there. Just not any. That is all in the cone and coil, which for the JBL's K and E series are both identical.

To this end, since we're talking JBL, we've got 1.20 Tesla for JBL's alnico K series, and 1.35 Tesla for the ceramic E series (explaining the E's increased sensitivity with the same cone and coil), even with the E's wider gap to be filled with this energy. The material used to generate said energy means nada other than how heavy the sucker ends up being when it's time to move it.

As for the different magnet materials being responsible for different speakers having "absolutely not the same sound" my experience supports the scientific data, i.e. I've two identical 200W amps, one with a K130 and the other with an E130, both of them get hammered on constantly, recording with the former and performing with the latter, and the same settings appear on both in order to deliver "my" sound at the required volume, regardless of which speaker is loaded.

The notable difference in performance is that the more efficient E130 delivers lots of high end and exposes small EQ adjustments more than a less efficient driver would, which has led some to conclude that the speaker itself sounds entirely different.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 26 Apr 2014 9:30 am

my tele friend uses a k130 jbl in his nashville 400 and it is the best sound. i've played steel through it several times and it's as good as it gets in my opinion.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 27 Apr 2014 2:22 pm

Jack Stoner wrote:Jack, try my Eminence EPS-15C neodymium magnet speaker at the next club jam. It was designed to be a direct replacement for the Peavey 1501-4 speaker, which was designed by Peavey to be a high power copy of the JBL.

When I first tried the Eminence speaker, the first thing that hit me was "this sounds exactly like the JBL K130 I had in my old Twin Reverb".

Jack, this is a great speaker. The biggest tonehound that I have ever met, Mr Michael Johnson, has one in his Peavey LTD 400. He just loves it, and it sounds wonderful.

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D130 or E130 JBL ?

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