Pull Release

Russell Adkins · Post by **Russell Adkins** » 15 Apr 2014 7:30 pm

What is wrong with a pull release guitar? Why don't the pro s use them ?

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 15 Apr 2014 7:56 pm

I want to make a guess before someone answers. I bet it's because the mechanics don't lend themselves to complicated, easily-changed copendents. I own a StageOne which is a pull/release with a fixed copedent. Looking at the mechanics and the fact that the builder decided to make the copedent fixed on it, I bet it's for that reason.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 16 Apr 2014 12:21 am

They're less flexible to rearrange, and splits require being clever (I think I saw Richard Burton post a solution).
BUT, once properly set up and adjusted, they're rock solid.

Dustin Rigsby · Post by **Dustin Rigsby** » 16 Apr 2014 4:04 am

To add to Lane's post...once setup right they sound REALLY great ! Most of the old pull release guitars are pretty hefty too. If you don't mind hauling it, play 'em ! There is no right or wrong way....just your way !

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 16 Apr 2014 10:14 am

In a word (actually two): Copedent Versatility
Along with Lanes observations above, every string
lower requires significant 'free play' (wasted motion)
in the same strings' raise.
~Rw

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 16 Apr 2014 10:43 am

Which brings to mind one other thing that didn't used to matter but does now (to many people):
All-pull guitars have more possibilities for adjusting leverage, so that all pulls on a pedal or knee start at the same time.
Push-pull and pull-release guitars have fewer options, and all raises on a string (usually) share a rod. This means you end up feeling a hitch or notch when a pull starts pulling one string before another, which bothers sone. O

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 16 Apr 2014 10:55 am

Actually the pulls in an PR system can be balanced quite
well thru the use of balanced single-trees or double-trees.
Zane Beck utilized this in his ZB guitars, even though they
were an all-pull system.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 16 Apr 2014 7:20 pm

Russell Adkins wrote:What is wrong with a pull release guitar? Why don't the pro s use them ?

nothing wrong with it, but Mr.Stadler is not here any longer, if he was, and was making a new guitars, and giving them away for free to top pro players, they would be all over the place..thats all...

db

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 16 Apr 2014 8:23 pm

Damir Besic wrote: nothing wrong with it, but Mr.Stadler is not here any
longer, if he was, and was making a new guitars, and
giving them away for free to top pro players, they
would be all over the place..thats all...db

Interesting that Leonard went from building 'Pull-Release'
to building 'All-Pull' before he stopped building.
~Rw

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 17 Apr 2014 1:09 am

I thought he'd still make pull-release if you asked.

Russ, do trees still work on intermediate raises like the F lever?
I notice that neither Emmons (from m a raise standpoint, pull-release and push-pull are identical) nor Marlen used them, and I think I've only seen them on ZB and Maverick.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 17 Apr 2014 4:42 am

The PR system is a good one.. However as Russ said,there is a lot of wasted motion.. String guages are much more critical on these guitars as well.. Go from a 017 to an 018 on stage , and you're in trouble, and there's a good possibility you'll be under the guitar adjusting pedal or knee stops, and trying to reset the balance between the raise and lower on that string, and then do it again when you put a 017 back on.. Meanwhile with an all pull guitar, when you break a string and must go to a slightly different gauge, you adjust the nylon a bit, and you're done...
Also, there is less adjustability if you like lots and lots of changes on one string.. Its a good system, and is rock solid once set, but as Russ said, there IS a reason Leonard Stadler used an all pull system on his later guitars.. They sell here quickly while his earlier PR guitars go unsold or sell for a pittance.... bob

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 17 Apr 2014 6:20 am

I think,,,not sure,,,that Paul Redmonds On-Trak prototypes are pull release????

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 17 Apr 2014 9:38 am

Pretty sure I've seen pull trees on Klines as well.

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 17 Apr 2014 11:44 am

If my Marlen D-10 would have been 30 lbs lighter, I would still have it...

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 17 Apr 2014 1:28 pm

i think it's just the natural progression of things being improved upon, updated and continually moving forward in the develpmental process.

new players don't look back into the archives to find a tool they need to do the job. they buy what is available and guaranteed to do the job.

there are 'many' advantages of new steels vs old style steels.

plus, many people are just like sheep.

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 17 Apr 2014 1:29 pm

I love the yoke system on Klines,,,,balances the pulls as near perfect as possible. It was always hard for me to get used to other guitars after playing my Kline.

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 17 Apr 2014 1:52 pm

Those Marlens are beautiful!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 18 Apr 2014 2:02 pm

Damir Besic wrote:
Russell Adkins wrote:What is wrong with a pull release guitar? Why don't the pro s use them ?
nothing wrong with it, but Mr.Stadler is not here any longer, if he was, and was making a new guitars, and giving them away for free to top pro players, they would be all over the place..thats all...

db

Nope, wouldn't happen. Even if they were "free", I don't think any of the top pros would use them, mostly for the aforementioned reasons. They're still being made, but in the last 50 years, they've never achieved any popularity among the pros.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 18 Apr 2014 4:05 pm

I think one can draw draw parallels with cars:
Despite the unassailable fact that modern cars have more features and better trim, there's a bunch of folks saying "I don't care if fuel injection IS more efficient AND more powerful, my carburetors have more soul."

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 Apr 2014 5:26 pm

i thought about the car analogy also lane. newer is just plain more efficient, reliable, surefooted and quick turning and returning.

design factor could use some imagination for cars and steels.

Frank Montmarquet · Post by **Frank Montmarquet** » 19 Apr 2014 7:23 pm

Older cars had vent windows and foot actuated high beams. That's what I miss. and cowl vents.

Bruce Morrison · Post by **Bruce Morrison** » 19 Apr 2014 7:32 pm

Frank Montmarquet wrote:Older cars had vent windows and foot actuated high beams. That's what I miss. and cowl vents.

The older the population gets, and the more wealth that is controlled by those "in their golden years", I bet there'll eventually be a car moniker that makes money by bringing the nostalgia. I know some high dollar hot-rods are like this, but I bet that some folks would rather spend premium dollars on a Chevy with rear-wheel drive and (as you say) hi-beam selectors on the floor than on the latest Oldsmobile... just make sure it has a crumple zone and air-bags, then make it as retro as you like. Seems like a no-brainer to me...

Will Cowell · Post by **Will Cowell** » 21 Apr 2014 11:54 am

I loved the tone of my PR Marlen. The first decent steel I ever owned, and I learned a lot about steel guitars with it because I had to do some tweaking to keep 'er good. But Lane is right on the money. There was just so much slop, or slack, with the raises, so that the lowers would work. The more I learned, the more I wanted of my copedent, the more frustrated I got, and I went on to an all-pull guitar. I'm very happy with my Williams.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Apr 2014 2:35 pm

Bruce Morrison wrote: I bet that some folks would rather spend premium dollars on a Chevy with rear-wheel drive and (as you say) hi-beam selectors on the floor than on the latest Oldsmobile...

The last production Oldsmobile was built in April, 2004.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 21 Apr 2014 4:02 pm

Russ Wever wrote:
Damir Besic wrote: nothing wrong with it, but Mr.Stadler is not here any
longer, if he was, and was making a new guitars, and
giving them away for free to top pro players, they
would be all over the place..thats all...db
Interesting that Leonard went from building 'Pull-Release'
to building 'All-Pull' before he stopped building.
~Rw

I know, Emmons did the same thing with a push pull... same as Sho~Bud did with a finger tip or rack and barrel guitars, interesting...

Db

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