Is the C6 a 'Dated' Tuning?

[Edward Meisse]

While I'm pretty sure I have nothing worthwhile to add to this discussion, I would like to point out that a previous post by Edward Meisse which refers to "Billy Carlisle" is in error. It's Billy Cardine. Billy Cardine's playing is proof positive that you can do essentially anything you want with a given tuning, especially in terms of single note lines. "Six String Swing" is great, but so is "The April Sessions" which is Billy's jazz quartet recording. In addition to being a talented and original player, Billy's also just a great guy, and I recommend his music to anyone.

Thanks for the correction. Whatever the guy's name is, he's a terrific player. I don't think anybody has done as much with those tuning intervals since Sol Hoopii. And that was a long time ago.

[Rob Munn]

I am enjoying this informative and somewhat controversial C6th discussion. But when it came full circle after reading all the posts, I like the opinions that there are no dated or wrong tunings for reasons. I mean, all of r&r and country music from the past is borrowed from and so many styes come back successfully. Western swing did the same thing; came back with the likes of "Asleep at the Wheel", and others I can’t remember. Commander Cody with his honky tonk and boogie woogie back 30 years ago. Blues seems to have never went away (probably why slidin' blues is so popular in the clubs and bars of N.A.) and will continue to be. Ben Harper, Freddie Roulette are taking it to modern and improvisational levels. Gospel in all its lovely harmonies isn’t going away any time soon and using steel guitar for that is a fairly new improvisation no? Rockabilly clawed back some 20 years ago, jazz improvisation too with the likes of Greg Liesz (did he play with Tom Scott and the L.A. Express? I saw Joni and them back in ’74 and they swung it!) Steve Howe using it in creative atmospheric back with those crazy vibes from the 70‘s. Of course Lindley and Cooder with their cool SoCal sounds. Yep, a tune with the impact of “Sleepwalk” would help. How would “Apache” sound on the steel? One could rip that song up in a new way. Me, not yet that’s for sure.
So the lap steel can be a lead instrument, a chord instrument; an atmospheric instrument. I agree that there are no bad tunings and I really hope that current music finds new ways to use the lap steel sounds that are available, in all their tunings.

[b0b]

I think you're still in the 20th century, Rob. We're 14 years into the 21st already.

I am enjoying this informative and somewhat controversial C6th discussion. Yep, a tune with the impact of “Sleepwalk” would help. How would “Apache” sound on the steel? One could rip that song up in a new way. Me, not yet that’s for sure.

I love Doug Beaumier's version: http://picosong.com/iA3/

Other than jazz, the market for instrumentals has pretty much gone away. It's a shame. It seems that only musicians appreciate instrumental artistry.

[Jerome Hawkes]

IOther than jazz, the market for instrumentals has pretty much gone away. It's a shame. It seems that only musicians appreciate instrumental artistry.

this is gonna sound crazy (& way off topic), but..
i think electronic dance music has taken that role now with the present generation. when you think about it - its 90% 'instrumental' - the instruments being sampled loops and such put to polyrhythms. they have a basic vocal hook and just loop from there. the young 'artists' doing 'beats' is the new version of the teen in the woodshed learning Charlie Parker riffs on sax.

[Mike Neer]

Tons of great IDM (Intelligent Dance Music), even some with B.J. Cole on steel. Check out Squarepusher, Amon Tobin, Wagon Christ, Aphex Twin.

Also, Josh Kaler sent me a video of a trio he is in that plays instrumental music similar to Tortoise--good stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe6nwvyELrA

[b0b]

Sorry. I didn't mean to derail the C6th lap steel discussion.

[George Piburn]

Here is Chris Combs of Tulsa Oklahoma with the Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey and Symphony playing some Dated Music in C6 Tuning.

[Donny Hinson]

How a player approaches a tuning contributes a lot to how a certain tuning sounds. Buddy Emmons, Pete Drake, and Curly Chalker all played C6th, but each got a characteristically different "sound" from the tuning.

[Edward Meisse]

I have suggested in the past that C pentatonic would be a better name for the tuning. I think a lot of the hubub over the 6th is just because it's in the name of the tuning. I think the term C6 tuning may be a dated term. C pentatonic anyone?

[Mike Neer]

There are only 4 notes, though. You'd need a D in there. Amin7 would work.

[Edward Meisse]

Oops! I do have a D in mine. But I guess that gives the term a rather limited frame of reference.

[Andy Volk]

In my view it's so completely NOT about the tuning one has on their instrument but what music one can get out of whatever they have.

Here is perhaps the ultimate example of a guy playing one string who flat out smokes a lot of us 6, 8, 10 and 12-string players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8H-67ILaqc

[Mike Neer]

Andy, I agree in that I look at a tuning as a collection of notes and intervals that I am trying to decipher and have my way with. The C6 tuning just so happens to have a lot of very sound logic in it for me. I suppose other tunings do, as well, but C6 gives me an opportunity to not sound like I'm playing C6, if you know what I mean.

[Andy Volk]

Completely agree. The tuning is of course not totally irrelevant - heck, I wrote a book on them - depending on the type of music you want to play, but steel players in general often put too much emphasis on the tuning itself and not enough on the instrument's tuning as merely conduit to get out the music inside of them. I'm totally guilty of this attitude myself.

[Lee Cecil]

Well said. Seems to me I posted something similar on another thread last week only to have the original author of that thread accuse me of "avoidance" and "settling," because I didn't believe that the lap steel needed a tuning "revolution."

[Doug Beaumier]

...accuse me of "avoidance" and "settling," because I didn't believe that the lap steel needed a tuning "revolution."

Don't worry about it, Lee. I think most of us agree with you. Most of the sound is in the player, and to a lesser degree in the tuning, the guitar, the effects, or the amp. Regarding C6 tuning (and other 6th tunings) IMO it's flexible enough that a Country player can sound country on it, a Jazz player can sound jazzy on it, a Swing player can swing on it, a Hawaiian player can sound Hawaiian on it, etc...