Trick to Holding Onto Round Bar?

[Jerome Hawkes]

i have one of the high end chrome plated BJS Jerry Byrd bars and it is so slick even i have a hard time holding on to it while playing. i've found the 'lower end' stainless bars a lot better to grip. The (now unavailable) tribo-tone is easiest to hold, but boy, controlling that sucker on the strings is another matter...its too 'slippery' - i dont feel i can stop it whenever i want.

so getting use to a certain bar is a lot more than it seems regardless of design.
i'm pretty happy now with the John Pearce bar - size, weight & feel is just about perfect for me. funny how a few grams will change the feel

[Gary Meixner]

First off I will say stick with it. Practice a little every day and the bullet bar will start to feel comfortable. It just takes time to develop the touch that gives you the control you are looking for. It can be frustrating and we have all been there.

After you have spent some time, and know better what you might want try a different bar sizes or weight, you will eventually find one that is perfect for you.

If you can find a B weight Tribotone bar that may help some. They are made from a hard plastic material that is very slick on the strings but seems to be a little easier to hold. They are good for any kind of playing but I use mine particularly if my hands are cold or sweaty.

Also Jim Burden makes some beautiful stainless steel bars and can drill them out to be lighter. I use his bars all the time and am thinking about ordering another one very soon.

Best of luck,

Gary Meixner

[Gary Meixner]

Steve,

I meant to answer you inquiry more specifically. There is no trick to holding onto a round bar. It just takes time and you will get it.

Best always,

Gary

[Ron Whitfield]

[Steve Hogge]

I have some decent tools. I'm thinking I'll wait until I figure out what I want, and then I'll try making one.

[Ron Whitfield]

This discussion might help;
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=262613

[David Matzenik]

Musicians can have great talent in playing, but very few are able to describe their own technique in clear detail. If you find a teacher who can, you will be lucky.

Contrary to popular wisdom, there are a number of slightly different ways of holding the bar. A typical difference is the attitude of the first finger which some excellent players will allow to be relaxed, almost straight along the top of the bar. Others will arch the first finger hoping they have enough traction in the tip of the finger to hold the bar down. If it works, it works.

Here is another exercise which will help with bar grip:

1. Hold the straight bar position. Three fingers behind the bar to mute overtones and steady the bar. These are sometimes spread a little. Thumb on upside of bar and resting on lower strings 456 etc. Play double stop of 1st and 3rd strings.

2. Go into reverse slant. Bend thumb and catch the hollow in the end of the bar. Use the thumb to turn the bar. The first finger remains over the outer end of the bar. A space opens between the tips of the first and second fingers and the round end of the bar is in view there. The first finger holds the bar down against the strings.

3. Remove thumb from hollow and catch upside of bar. Use thumb opposing pressure of first finger to return to straight bar position.

4. Go into forward slant. Again the thumb bends pushing the player end of the bar back under the hand while the fingers curve gently around moving the round end of the bar up neck.
In a very relaxed players, the end of the first finger will be on the upside of the round end with a little of the round end showing between fingers. In effect the round end of the bar is held between the first and second fingers tips with the first finger ready to push the bar back into straight bar position.

In step 2, the first finger is more or less straight which puts the first knuckle back a little from the bar end. A little pressure holds the bar down all through the movement and a slight bend of that first knuckle wraps the surface of the bar providing far more traction that a finger tip.

Do this exercise pivoting on the third string, going alternatively flat and sharp by one fret on the first string. Move up the neck repeating the movements at every fret. And then back down again. Keep it up until it drives you nuts.

[Stephen Cowell]

Normal steel playing doesn't require much to any lifting of the bar completely off the strings, is this what you actually want to do?

It's my understanding (and experience) that single-note riffing is best done with the tip of the bar. You have to be able to pick it up in order to do that.

[Doug Beaumier]

There shouldn't be any problem handling a small, round bar. I use the Dunlop 918 (5.5oz 3/4" diameter x 2 3/4").

IMO this idea about never lifting the bar off the strings applies more to pedal steel guitar (heavier bars).
Non-pedal players have been bar-hopping, bar slamming, hammering and pulling off the bar for 100 years! Those are 'stock in trade' techniques for non-pedal players with their small, light bars.

In my latest video "I'll Fly Away" the bar is OFF the strings more than it's ON the strings.

----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSh4fP4TklU

[Steve Hogge]

I love the tone of that Century 6. I am tempted to get a BR-9 with that pickup, for those times when the humbucker isn't doing it for me.

[Ron Whitfield]

It's my understanding (and experience) that single-note riffing is best done with the tip of the bar. You have to be able to pick it up in order to do that.

Last I checked only the tail is lifted while the nose stays on the strings, right?

[Rune Alm]

Hi!
Thought I'd share my own trick for holding on to the steel!:

I made a small leather case for the bar and used waxed string to sow it together.

The tiny amount of wax in the leather case touches the steel and gives it a surface with a nice grip. You can't see any wax on the steel, it just makes it feel a little different.

You could try a little bee's wax. Works great for me anyhow

[Dennis Saydak]

Sometimes you need to do something differently like in this video from one of the masters of steel guitar. He has a unique way of holding the bar IMHO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWV9tEN16_k

[C. E. Jackson]

This has been an interesting discussion which I have enjoyed. Thanks Steve, for initiating the topic.

Each of the various courses, including Jerry Byrd's Course, which I have, generally make recommendations regarding types and sizes of bars, and how to hold and handle them (not all the same). After watching many steel players for more than 65 years and looking at old photos and movies, I am convinced that professionalism and mastery of the steel guitar depends more on the player and less on the type of bar and exact method of holding and using same (my opinion).

My friend Bobby Koefer has told me how he came to used the bar he uses. He first started with a stock flat bar. Bobby's current bar was custom designed by him and made to his specifications. I have never seen another player use or hold a bar exactly as Bobby does. I consider Bobby as a great steel guitar player. His music and playing style earned him induction into THE STEEL GUITAR HALL OF FAME IN 2004.

Kayton Roberts, another great artist, has a unique style of holding his bar. His style and music earned him induction into THE STEEL GUITAR HALL OF FAME IN 2012.

Many other less known very good players use non-mainstream bars and holding styles.

I would recommend mainstream bars and holding/using techniques to start with and later modifications to suit each individual's preferences. Also, I believe what makes a great artist or player depends on the player, and not entirely on type bars, guitars, or rigid methods. Remember Billy Hew Lin was considered a great player, even though he lost his left hand in an accident. Also Andy Iona was a great player, even though he lost his right thumb in an accident. Refer to Andy Volk's book, Lap Steel Guitar for more details on these 2 players.

[Jamie O'Connell]

I use stainless steel bullet bars -- the Dunlop 918 and the John Pearse Cryogenic. I find that over time the bar picks up oils from my hand and gets more and more slippery. I have found that cleaning them with a liquid de-greaser gets them back to a pristine state and makes them much easier to grip.

[David Matzenik]

Good point, Jamie. Especially in hot weather. Although I just use soap and water to wash the bar and my hands at the same time.

[Steve Hogge]

This has been an interesting discussion which I have enjoyed. Thanks Steve, for initiating the topic.

You're welcome. If I made a useful contribution, it was probably a fluke.

Now that I am a veteran with almost four days of practice behind me, I have learned a number of interesting things. For example, my hand actually gets tired from holding that little bar. Apparently the instruments I already play don't do much for the bar-holding muscles.

I had no idea the bar-holding issue was so unsettled. I figured someone would say, "Do it like this, because that's how everyone on earth does it."

I love the instrument. It has an odd freedom to it that plain old non-slide guitars seem to lack. It seems to draw out improvisation.

[David Mason]

I think Mr. Matzenik's first post hinted at something subsequent posts are too. So, I'll avoid shark-like circling around and around and CHOMP right on:

Advantages of the bullet bar are:

A) you mostly don't have to hold IT you just have to hold it DOWN.
B) unlike anything with a handle it CAN'T twist funny/sideways/unusable on you.
C) since you don't have to hold it about 90% of the time, your hand shouldn't get tired. Relax. Just keep it cornered down there somehow, not death-gripped.
D) Real music isn't, usually, one continuous steel guitar solo*, so there is time to grab it (10%-ish) by: it's nose pops up if you press it's butt, it's butt pops up if you press it's nose. You may have transfer credits from other... ahem - "circumstances" - which can apply here.

Eb) You are going to own a bunch of them anyway, so you might as well get started.

*(quel horreurs!)

[Ron Whitfield]

I consider Bobby Koefer a great steel guitar player.
Kayton Roberts, another great artist, has a unique style of holding his bar.
Billy Hew Lin was a great player, even though he lost his left hand in an accident.
Andy Iona was a great player, even though he lost his right thumb in an accident.
Many other less known very good players use non-mainstream bars and holding styles.
I believe what makes a great artist or player depends on the player, and not entirely on type bars, guitars, or rigid methods.

I would recommend mainstream bars and holding/using techniques to start with and later modifications to suit each individual's preferences

All great players and points, C.E., and before seeing the names I'd already thot of Bobby and Kayton, I'll add Roland Peachey to your list of greats with unorthodox bars and handlings. I've never argued that any player not play mentally or physically as they feel moved to, that would be stifling creativity and imposing listener suicide, and lord knows I love all the unorthodox guys, but there are proven methods that allow the player to get the most out of their guitar and themselves with the bullet bar that far outweigh alternatives unless somebody somewhere has a radical approach that slays the JB type of teachings.
Now, all those people mentioned are true greats, but I'll bet every one of them will concede that there are things they can't do within the limitations their handling styles provide. Billy couldn't do reverse slants and forwards were a struggle, and I doubt a flat bar player can do reverses to any real degree without Cirque de Soleil maneuvers, so their actual 'mastery' (another valuable topic for another time) of the steel would be highly suspect no matter how good they are or how much somebody likes them. But we luv'm and viva la difference!

Your last line is one I fully endorse and always try to mention, learn it all completely right and then turn off your brain and let it rip in whatever manner suits you.

[C. E. Jackson]

[/b]All great players and points, C.E., and before seeing the names I'd already thot of Bobby and Kayton, I'll add Roland Peachey to your list of greats with unorthodox bars and handlings.

Ron, if you can give an internet URL for a video of Roland Peachey playing, I would like to see the bar he uses.

Thank you.

C. E.

[Ron Whitfield]

He's discussed in this current thread, C.E. http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=264328
He's a flatterer.

[C. E. Jackson]

Thanks Ron.

[Stefan Robertson]

SIMPLE SOLUTION

I use a RR2 Shubb Tone Bar for its weight and ease of movement as it feels more comfy but the following advice can work on a Bullet bar as well.

Here is the reveal: Get some cheap GRIP TAPE: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360383757254? ... 1497.l2649

Simply cut to whatever amount required to give you just enough grip. Notice on my Profile Picture I have placed some black grip tape on the sides of my tone bar. I don't drop the bar EVER anymore unless I mean to. Enjoy.

[Stefan Robertson]

Enjoy Keep Steelin'