MSA uni S12 pickup recommendation

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

This is a lacquer MSA Vintage XL with E66 pickups. The guitar itself has good tone and sustain, not as rich and thick as a bud or upper mids resonant as an emmons - more 'pure-toned' like MSA's are known to be.

The pickup is mostly the issue i need to deal with...I like the tone for practise, its sweet and chirpy and smooth, and sounds very clean and airy, and has an easy playing feel to the tone.

In a band mix, its thin sounding and lacks punch or 'body' or boldness in tone, a lot of bass and a lot of gliss, and not much in the middle where the fundamental harmonics live. I don't scoop my eq amp settings either...

Anyone surprised at this point?

By comparison, my shobud pro II with original SC pickups, by itself could be said to be a little 'dull" and a little 'fuzzy', there's not a lot o extra sparkle and air with similar amp settings. Playing with backing tracks (haven't played this one out before in a live band context) the shobud sound is clear, defined, and punchy. The mids are what I'd call chewy. There is no extraneous 'air' or highs that just vaporize in a band context, and everything in the pickup voice seems to focus on bringing the 'body' of the tone forward.

Always amazes me how a tone for solo context is almost the exact opposite of what sounds good with a band. Wide and scooped vs focussed and forward.

So...preferring humbuckers..but could be convinced otherwise...what pickups give the punch of the shobud with maybe a little more clarity and air on the top end to give a bit more of that to work with for home and studio use?

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I'd go for a Bob Hoffnar ToneAligner (descendant of the Danny Shields Crap trap; two row of adjustable poles, so you can balance each string) if you want humbucker.
I share your dislike for the E-66: in my opinion it has decent tone, but it has a soul compressor. Everything comes out flat and lifeless.
Personally, I like the Wallace TrueTone (I'd get something like 20K with a tap at 13), but you said 'bucker, but the ToneAligner is an excellent bucker.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

I like the sound of the Alumitones on my newer MSA's. I have several interchangeable pickups and I keep coming back to the Alumitone on E9th. I usually use a Tonealigner on C6th.
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Tom, I forgot about the Alumitone: I've played Bob Simons' universal Milly with a few different pickups, and the Alumitone sounded great, my favorite of the ones I tried, but I don't think a ToneAligner was among his pickups (and a Milly will sound different from a Vintage)
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Thanks Lane and Darvin for the suggestions.

One of the things that Darvin raises is the difference of pickup based on neck...

remind that mine is a U12 and does a lot of duties...for example the jamming group I play with does equal parts of rock, blues, blues/swing fusion, 1940's wartime swing (no texas swing...yet!), and nashville country....I do use fuzz for an effect, and with the E66, the tone control is invariably all the way off and wishing there was another quarter turn! Ugg..

I don't feel like I helped my cause by adding this extra angle of genre tones...but I'd really want to dig into the tonal differences in terms of genre universality and the fuzz effect thing...I really don't want to have to complexify my life by learning to program a tubefex or something....!

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

If you wanted more darkness from the tone knob, you might change the capacitor value.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Susan Alcorn (deceased) · From: Baltimore, MD, USA

Hi Tom,

I know that auditioning pickups can be an expensive and tedious chore. I have three MSA steel guitars from that era. I've always thought that the original Supersustain and Supersustain II pickups sounded the best on the Vintage XL double neck. I have two S12 (with a C6/9 tuning) - one I use the Bill Lawrence XR-16 and the other I use the Alumitone, both of which I like. I've not yet tried Bob Hoffnar's ToneAligner pickup, but I've heard nothing but good about them, and I like the concept.

Best of luck!
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www.susanalcorn.net

"So this is how you swim inward. So this is how you flow outwards. So this is how you pray."
- Mary Oliver

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Thanks for your input Susan Smile

This guitar was sold to me without the original pickup Sad

It would be nice to at least compare to the pickup the guitar was designed to have...for sure!

I do remember my old MSA Classic S10 with the SS pickup recorded up pretty nice as a DI signal....back at the turn of the century...haha...(couldn't play back then to save my life, mind you!)

Bob Simons · From: Kansas City, Mo, USA

ASLane said the Alumitone sounded great on my MSA M3...until I got a fully adjustable Telonics!!!!! Absolutely can't beat it!!!!!!
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Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I have a 1976 birdseye maple lacquer that I bought new. I went through several pickups over the years. I also have a U-12 Zum. I keep going back to the MSA for a variety of reasons, one being tone. I currently have a Telonics 427 (humbucker dual adjustable poles). It's dead quiet and love the tone. The 1983 Zum has a Truetone on it wound to 18000. When I bought the TT I had to send it back twice to take windings off of it until it broke out of the murky. I actually had the same Truetone wound the same and put on my MSA and it sounded great, but too much hum for studio.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Thanks for the telonics suggestions, Dennis and Bob.

Would love to see a picture of your MSA, Dennis!

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I can't get the "upload picture" to work?
I got it to work! It took a while to load.
These pictures are 2yrs old and shows the Truetone pickup. I don't have any recent pictures with the Telonics on it.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

If you go with the Telonics, take your time adjusting the poles and follow the instructions. The final results will be a well balanced pickup (individual string tone and volume balance)and absolutely no hum in any environment.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

That's a beauty of an MSA!

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