Weissenborn with Resonator

[Alan Brookes]

I think when I build mine I'll make it a 12-string.

[Ermanno Pasqualato]

Hey Alan, take care of the tension. Remember that where the cone is, it is empty and only a small area under the tailpiece has to carry the tension. A 12 string guitar could have serious problems.

[John Morton]

I have made six brass tricones using the Weissenborn body pattern. They are hollow all the way to the peghead. I have used both 23" and 25+" scales, also both 6 and 7 strings.

With string selection I was flying in the dark, so I started with medium sets and changed out the ones that seemed inadequate for whatever reason. I mostly end up with fairly heavy strings across the board. Players like firm support for the slide on the unwound strings, and generally a resonator instrument gives you more tone the harder you play. On a Spanish model, heavier strings make less fret noise. For Hawaiian models played acoustically I think there is simply more power from a hard pluck on a heavy string.

With my instruments there's no danger of damage from anything you put on them, but there must be an upper limit where the string is insufficiently excited. I an interested in thoughts from anyone who knows about this stuff.
John Morton
www.jmorton.us

[Alan Brookes]

The downward tension on the cone depends on the angle of the strings at the bridge. It's what they call, in physics, the triangle of forces. You could, for instance, reduce the pressure on the cone to zero by making the strings pass over without a bend. I have a twelve string banjo, and there's no problem with the vellum cracking because the angle has been adjusted to prevent that happening. There has to be just enough pressure for the cone to resonate without collapsing. Too little pressure and the strings rattle.

It looks like I'm going to be forced into retirement shortly, which will give me more time to spend on these sort of projects.

[Edward Meisse]

I have made six brass tricones using the Weissenborn body pattern. They are hollow all the way to the peghead. I have used both 23" and 25+" scales, also both 6 and 7 strings.

With string selection I was flying in the dark, so I started with medium sets and changed out the ones that seemed inadequate for whatever reason. I mostly end up with fairly heavy strings across the board. Players like firm support for the slide on the unwound strings, and generally a resonator instrument gives you more tone the harder you play. On a Spanish model, heavier strings make less fret noise. For Hawaiian models played acoustically I think there is simply more power from a hard pluck on a heavy string.

With my instruments there's no danger of damage from anything you put on them, but there must be an upper limit where the string is insufficiently excited. I an interested in thoughts from anyone who knows about this stuff.
John Morton
www.jmorton.us

Most folks don't seem to know that the original National Tricones did, in fact, have hollow necks. They were based on the Weissenborne idea.

[Ermanno Pasqualato]

My last work: soundposts and a baffle inside

[Alan Brookes]

It looks good. How does it sound?

Let's hope that it's your latest work, and not your last.

[Ermanno Pasqualato]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx-396OsbEs
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mYrq0orqYk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWufuTFR4xQ

This is the sound of a weissenborn with resonator I currently build.

[Mike D]

Although I never trademarked the name, I've been building 'Weissonators' since 1999. Be great if you could call yours something else to avoid confusion.

[Ron Bednar]

Really interesting thread...with pics and vids of undeniably beautiful guitars.

Personally I like Weissenborns because they are not resonators.
I love their ethereal sound, the graceful and subtle harmonics and complex overtones.
I don't mean to criticize in anyway or sound negative here...I mean to each his own.
But it has always seemed to me that sticking a resonator in one takes much of those unique qualities away and replaces them with a twang the reso's are so famous for.
Personally I don't much like the sound of a single cone resonator, too nasal for me, but I do like tricones and biscuit cones.
And it might be that I've only gotten a chance to play around with a couple Weiss/reso's over the years.
Hey I also prefer F holes to the standard round ones, they seem to provide a better bass response but what do I know?

Ermanno, I have a question regarding the above picture showing the baffle in the shot with the uncovered sound holes.
I am curious why the sound holes are placed directly over the baffle?
I understood a baffle is used to separate the bouts and channel the bass sound up to the sound holes in the upper bout.
At least that's the way I understand it to work in a single cone resonator.
It looks like your guitar essentially has dead air in the upper bout where I would think the sound holes should be.

That just struck me when I saw the picture, a real beauty BTW.

Cheers,
Ron

[Michael Kienhofer]

I too dabbled in building a cross between a Dobro and Weissenborn.
This is a pic from 2005.
It was a prototype I quickly put together for this Bluegrass festival.
Not many purists liked it,and I soon went back to the Traditional R body.

[Ermanno Pasqualato]

Hi Ron and thanks for your interest.
result I had is absolutely interesting if you consider the volume of a weissenborn which is bigger than a spyder bridge dobro. So you can achieve more volume you can manage for resonance. This is only my interpretation of a good result. Without baffle the sound is open but less rich. With baffle in that position it becomes a bit close but rich.
Another thing: this instrument is absolutely a valid alternative of dobro. A second guitar to play overall alone because of its resonance with full sound. I love it and my ears are very sensible to the quality of sound
I have already built around 10 I am satisfied and I want to go on.

[Ron Bednar]

Thanks for the reply and explanation Ermanno, much appreciated.
You make beautiful guitars that's for sure.
And after 10 of them you ought to know what you are looking for!

Cheers,
Ron

[Xavier Baron]

Hi Allan, Do you remember my wood tricone?
I have a spider under construction with the same mold, and a more bent back:



I think it can be considered as a weissenborn with a resonator.







Xavier

[Michael Kienhofer]

Keep the pics coming Xavier!

[Alan Brookes]

Hi Alan, Do you remember my wood tricone?
I have a spider under construction with the same mold, and a more bent back:
...

That's very similar to the one I'm thinking of building, except that mine will be twelve string.
It looks good so far.

[Xavier Baron]

Keep the pics coming Xavier!

Yes Michael, I'll post some as soon as I win my fight against the bottom to bend it in shape. T'at seems to be THE tricky thing.

[Michael Kienhofer]

Waiting to also hear how you overcome this problem!

[Xavier Baron]

Michael,

I fighted about 3 weeks with the back

An finally I won!







The secrets are:

Thin wood, less than 2 mm

Braces, more braces and braces again, covering the whole curve, glued on the sides


Heat: I began with a steam iron, with poor results. Notice that I glued the back joint with Titebond III and it didn't break

And… denatured alcohol. I found some info on the web about that… seems that alcohol dissolves wood cellulose. That was the most helpful for me, the back agreed to bend in a couple of minutes
I could glue it as the alcohol evaporated.

And clamps indeed


Next time, I'll build a mold with laminate, and heat bend it BEFORE glueing the joint.

[Michael Kienhofer]

Looks fantastic Xavier you do most excellent work,
You must have had a bit of a sweat on during the process?
Looking forward to more pics and possibly an MP3 or Video?

[Xavier Baron]

Thanks Michael Ies, sweat and fear

But we are on Alan's topic, I'll create a new one for my instrument very soon with more words ( sorry my english is poor, I'm french, and when I was young, french educational system was not at its best about languages other than french

[Michael Kienhofer]

Ok keep up the good Work!

[Xavier Baron]

Hi Alan, Do you remember my wood tricone?
I have a spider under construction with the same mold, and a more bent back:
...

That's very similar to the one I'm thinking of building, except that mine will be twelve string.
It looks good so far.

Hi alan will you use carbon or anything else for the neck for its stiffnedd about 12 strings?

[Alan Brookes]

...Hi alan will you use carbon or anything else for the neck for its stiffened about 12 strings?

I don't think extra stiffening will be necessary, Xavier. When they add stiffening to 12-string guitars it's usually because they don't want the action on the fingerboard to rise with age, but since I shalln't be pushing the strings against the frets that won't matter. Also, the shape of a Weissenborn is much more solid than a guitar with a neck and a neck-to-body joint.
And remember, that with a resonator, the strings will be attached to a tailpiece, so, unlike an ordinary 12-string guitar, the tension of the strings will not be pulling against wood glued to the table of the guitar.