Shobud Fingertips and Permanents----got a picture??

Daniel Ibanez · Post by **Daniel Ibanez** » 1 Mar 2014 8:51 am

Bob Muller wrote:Daniel, the set up for the S-10 Fingertip is as follows:
RKR lower #2 Lower #9
RKL Raise #1 Lower #6
LKR Lower #4 Lower #8
LKL Raise #4 Raise #8
Hope this is what you wanted to know.

Yes, Bob.
It's clear now.
Thanks

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 2 Mar 2014 6:32 am

What I like on my fingertips, is:

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 6 Mar 2014 7:39 am

Anyone know the whereabouts of the guitar George Lewis is playing in this photo from the late 60's?

Scotty on bass and Billy Robinson on flattop guitar.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 9 Mar 2014 9:09 am

Wish that pic was in color! What color clover/shamrock?

Bob Muller · Post by **Bob Muller** » 6 Apr 2014 3:16 pm

Here are some photos of another permanent Sho-Bud, this is in as found condition so it's still quite dirty. I believe it would be somewhere around 64 to 66 vintage but that's only a guess.

Notice that there are 4 output jacks on the end of the guitar, they appear to be original, I have no idea what they are for. 2 are under the handle in this photo.

Note the cross shaft clear at the right hand end of the guitar, this connects back to the knee lever on the other end of the guitar on the E9 side, and ends up connected to the reversing assembly on the C6 side??

This photo shows the knee lever which lowers string eight, E9 side, and then connects to the C6 neck by traveling around the guitar. It appears that one Rod is missing on the E9 side, probably string 4.

This is the reversing assembly on the C6 neck, look at small finger tuners at the top of the assembly. These can be used to tune the lowers on those strings from under the guitar, very handy.

This photo shows the 4 output jacks on the end plate, there is also a neck switch and two coil tap switches. The other interesting thing is that there is only two wires coming out of each pickup. I have no idea what all of this does at this time??

This is the backside of the C6 reversing mechanism.

There are return Springs attached to the bottom ends of the fingers, and only two holes in each finger.

I plan to study the guitar for a while longer, and then do a restoration.

Bob Muller · Post by **Bob Muller** » 6 Apr 2014 3:51 pm

Here are photos of yet another permanent, with a newer style undercarriage still. I believe this one is from late 60s to early 70s vintage, it has a Pro two style undercarriage with two hole pullers. This one has a reversing mechanism on both the E9 and C6 side of the guitar.

The finish is all original, and seems to be very nice condition. This guitar has the later style key heads and tuners, with large brass rollers.

This shows the guitar with one neck from the other permanent. Notice that there are three screws attaching the blonde neck, and eight screws to attach the darker neck.

I wondered what the dark guitar would look like with lighter necks, they are just sitting there but here's the answer.

This is a photo of the reversing assembly on the C6 neck, somewhat updated from the previous guitar. This one uses Alan screws to do the tuning.

This shows the reversing assembly from the E9 side the guitar. Both guitars use tuner bushings for spacers between the reversing bars.

These photos show the Pro two style undercarriage on this guitar, looks like it's built very well. The fingers on this guitar have 4 Rod holes in each finger, and have adjustable style return Springs mounted down against the body.

I'm in the process of doing more cleanup work on this guitar, and adding a fourth knee lever. I can show more photos when the work is finished.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 6 Apr 2014 4:00 pm

Bob!
I am stunned,,,, and very jealous!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 8 Apr 2014 12:32 pm

Here's a beauty! Who are those guys? 8^)

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 8 Apr 2014 1:38 pm

Bob - my Permanent has the same dust catcher fretboards and later big gumbys with brass roller nuts. i always assumed the fretboards were changed and possibly the key heads sometime in the 70's when 2 knee levers were added, but it seems they were still being custom made as late as 1970. i took the key heads off and everything looked original, the holes & footprint. mine also had the later undercarriage. I had my 66 Emmons PP when i got this one and honestly, the Perm was the one that put the smile on my face. the Emmons is gone now..
mine was a custom order D-10 with a non-pedal C6 neck - i think i recall Don Helms perm was this set up...is that right?

oh - for all you Perm lovers, Tom Morrells first TopHands CD (Vol 1) was cut on a cabinet end Perm

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 9 Apr 2014 1:12 pm

Bob!
I'm crackin' up looking' at the pics of the reversers! See what they used for spacers? Those are the tuner ferrels they didn't use in the key heads! Waste no, want not!
John

NEVER MIND! Just read your post more closely. Still, I find the tuner ferrels most amusing!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 9 Apr 2014 1:23 pm

John Billings wrote:Here's a beauty! Who are those guys? 8^)

Shot and Jerry Brightman, perhaps?

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 9 Apr 2014 1:30 pm

Very good Herb! Jerry was just 15 when Shot gave him that guitar! He used that guitar at the beginning of his long stint of playing with Buck.

Bob Muller · Post by **Bob Muller** » 10 Apr 2014 7:44 am

Jerome, this guitar did not come with dust catcher fret boards, I put them there myself. Does your guitar have the fingertip style undercarriage, or the two hole pullers with brass rollers like this one?? How about a photo of the undercarriage?

John, they were always very clever about using existing parts, such as the tuner bushings etc.

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 10 Apr 2014 9:34 am

mine is 2 hole pullers just like yours. i'll pull it out and get some pics. i was pretty sure the dust catchers werent original, but i didnt pull them to see. I had the great Billy Knowles restore it (he is an excellent pull-release mechanic as well as push-pull - lots of old p-r Marlens around here too in NC).

in my signature line i call it a '65 just because i knew it wasnt pre-65...i have no idea of the year, but its looking more like 68-70. is that pretty much the case with yours? speaking of cases, mine came with the old rivet looking case like the original early Perms. another oddity is it has the old style pedal bar and pedals. seems odd they would custom cast these as late as that - they are quite stout - fit with a wingnut thru a hole in the front legs.

when i got the perm, it had been in a case for about 30 years- i put some fresh strings on, tuned it up and every single pedal and knee when dead on to pitch - i've yet had to adjust anything.

Bob Muller · Post by **Bob Muller** » 10 Apr 2014 10:19 am

Jerome, I believe the guitar that I have is late 60s early 70s, no idea for sure what year it is. In that time frame I suppose dust catchers could've been a possibility, not sure when they started making these. The case I have has the rivets, but I'm pretty sure it was swapped out for an older case than the guitar came in. I wonder how many of these actually had the two hole puller style undercarriage, I know I have not seen very many.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 10 Apr 2014 10:37 am

Two hole pullers? Didn't they come in in mid '73? If that's so, Shobud made Perms a lot longer than I thought. First the welded workings, then the Fingertip-style, with the changer still being the Perm-style changer. But two hole pullers? Interesting!

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 10 Apr 2014 10:42 am

Bob Muller wrote:Jerome, In that time frame I suppose dust catchers could've been a possibility, not sure when they started making these. .

To answer when Sho-Bud started making dust catchers, I have a set of Sho-Bud raised graphics fretboards from the 1950s. They are cast aluminum. They are essentially copies of raised graphics Bigsby fretboards but with card suits instead. This is the only set I have ever seen.

Bob Muller · Post by **Bob Muller** » 10 Apr 2014 4:20 pm

John Billings wrote:Two hole pullers? Didn't they come in in mid '73? If that's so, Shobud made Perms a lot longer than I thought. First the welded workings, then the Fingertip-style, with the changer still being the Perm-style changer. But two hole pullers? Interesting!

Yes John, that's one of the points I was trying to point out With the photos. There are at least three completely different Undercarriages For these guitars. I guess after the welded set up they Wouldn't really be permanents anymore, but they're still the same pull release changer.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 10 Apr 2014 4:38 pm

Bob,
After the welded undercarriages, they went with the Fingertip stuff. Why make two different mechanisms? It wasn't really a Perm anymore, as one could change the cope easily. Still a Perm changer though. But I had never heard of a Perm with two hole pullers! That's '63 stuff. Interesting,, and very cool,,, if original. But nothing Shobud really surprised me!
John

Bob Muller · Post by **Bob Muller** » 10 Apr 2014 5:34 pm

John,it would be Interesting to see photos of the one that Jerome Has, he said it looks about the same as the one I have. The undercarriage of my guitar certainly looks to be original, just another Sho-Bud mystery.

And how about this one, half permanent style, half fingertip style??

I'm guessing that this is an older guitar which was updated at some point with the fingertip style on the E9 side.

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 10 Apr 2014 6:12 pm

oops Bob, was wrong on the 2 hole pullers - its been a while since i've had this out.
poor pics, i'll try to get some better ones, but this something quick with the phone camera.
i had to get the underside flocked because someone had drilled about 50 holes in there moving the knee levers around

this was factory non-pedal on the C6 neck

Bob Muller · Post by **Bob Muller** » 10 Apr 2014 6:33 pm

Interesting Jerome, the key heads and body look basically the same to me. Does yours have screws down from the top deck into the end plates, or what are the covers for on Corners of the top deck? The case style the same as the one I have, but like I said pretty sure mine is not original to this guitar.

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 10 Apr 2014 6:44 pm

the logical theory on the brass looking covers is that someone at the factory accidentally drilled thru the top on one side when attaching the endplates (there is a screw right under there coming from the bottom) so they put those pretty decorations on there to cover it up - i don't know why else they would be there and haven't tried to pull them off. of course, if you put one on there, you need another on the other side so it looks like its suppose to be that way....

Bob Muller · Post by **Bob Muller** » 10 Apr 2014 7:09 pm

Well as usual it'll probably always be a mystery of sorts, one things for sure no two Are exactly the same. That is a good-looking guitar by the way, at least that part is consistent with them.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 4 Feb 2015 2:54 pm

Well, We've seen a 4th singleneck-fingertip--the 4th one anybody can remember or document--rare bird!! It has slipped back down into the depths of obscurity--some one has purchased it from the music store who had it for a brief time. Wonder who the new owner is? I was out of the loop on this one with medical problems. WOW what a sleeper and WOW was this guitar mis-diagnosed!!:lol:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=278388