National Reso-Phonic/Scheerhorn Collaboration

Brian McGaughey · Post by **Brian McGaughey** » 27 Mar 2014 8:37 pm

..."I'm happy with what I have...I'm happy with what I have...I'm happy with what I have"...

..."No GAS...No GAS...No GAS"...

Nice Tom!

Vladimir Sorokin · Post by **Vladimir Sorokin** » 31 Mar 2014 9:46 pm

Thanks for the vid, Tom, nice playing and cool guitar

I'm still trying to choose between this model and Appalachian... Any thoughts?

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 1 Apr 2014 2:34 am

Vladimir Sorokin wrote:Thanks for the vid, Tom, nice playing and cool guitar
I'm still trying to choose between this model and Appalachian... Any thoughts?

I finally got to play my first Appalachian several weeks ago as did Brad Bechtel at our first meeting in quite some time of the informal San Francisco Dobro Club. One of the guys who has been playing dobro for a couple years brought his that he received a few months ago, It was his first higher end dobro (long-time banjo and guitar player) and he went for the Appalachian because he didn't want to risk huge money on a guitar that he would have to order without being able to play one from the builder first. I can understand that. You're taking a big leap of faith in ordering a guitar that might sell for $4000 and above from Beard, Clinesmith, Meredith, Rayco, etc. and the only exposure you've had to the builder's wares might be some YouTube videos.

This Appalachian at our dobro club meeting cost quite a bit more than the base price because it had a lot of extras, for example fancy inlay on the neck and headstock from Bryan England.

I think the base price of an Appalachian in maple is about $1500 without any fancy extras, and for that price I think you can't go wrong, Tom Warner is building quality guitars that are a good value.

On the other hand the new Nati-horns from what everyone is saying are very difficult to tell apart from a Tim-built Scheerhorn made of the same woods. We know that every guitar is a little different - there's just no getting around it - but National seems to be doing an excellent job of following the "recipe," and people (like Tom here) have been very happy with the guitars.

The Rob Ickes model costs a lot more than either the mahogany or spruce, but were I in the market for a new dobro, as much as I enjoyed my first experience with an Appalachian, in the back of my mind I think I'd be wondering if I should have come up with the extra money for a new Scheerhorn.

Vladimir Sorokin · Post by **Vladimir Sorokin** » 1 Apr 2014 3:35 am

Thanks for the detailed answer, Mark. One of the reasons for checking the Appalachian was the videos I saw on 'LonesomeDobro' YouTube channel, Mr.Kawamura's playing is very soulful and sounds very good to my ears

But you are right - I need to check all the pros and cons before spending so much money )) BTW, I have 2 Nationals and the build quality and sound is EXCELLENT

David Alexander · Post by **David Alexander** » 8 Apr 2014 7:33 am

My new #14 I just received from Artisan Guitars. This should answer any questions about the flame in their maple guitars but I took this with the morning sun coming thru the window. This is a great guitar.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 8 Apr 2014 8:08 am

Congratulations David. That is some serious flame on that maple! Nice 'burst.

Tim Tweedale · Post by **Tim Tweedale** » 22 May 2014 11:13 pm

A few months have gone by since the last post in this thread, and I'm curious - have any more of you gotten to try out, listen to, or purchase a National Scheerhorn, and if so, what is your opinion?

-Tim

Ron Bednar · Post by **Ron Bednar** » 23 May 2014 9:38 am

I have always been bit boggled by even the highest priced resonators using that old relatively thin stamped metal tailpiece.
Any reso can be improved by changing that stamped out relic to a solid metal tailpiece.
An RS-2 by Allen for instance, or something similar, if there are any.
Well worth the price IMHO.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 23 May 2014 2:09 pm

ron..i'm with you. you'd think for $4000 some of these companies could at least make their own tailpiece.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 23 May 2014 2:47 pm

Ron Bednar wrote:I have always been bit boggled by even the highest priced resonators using that old relatively thin stamped metal tailpiece.
Any reso can be improved by changing that stamped out relic to a solid metal tailpiece.
An RS-2 by Allen for instance, or something similar, if there are any.
Well worth the price IMHO.

As we all know, there are two sides to every story. I think Randy's tailpiece is fine piece of work (somehow that doesn't sound quite right

) but I have come across several folks whom have ordered the unit and ended up taking it off and putting it up for sale because for the money they didn't really notice a difference in sound or in a couple cases they felt the guitar didn't sound as good as with the original tailpiece.

Others have reported favorable results and were happy with the modification. For ballpark $100+ I would like to know going in that it would be an obvious improvement over the status quo.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 23 May 2014 2:59 pm

chris ivey wrote:ron..i'm with you. you'd think for $4000 some of these companies could at least make their own tailpiece.

Actually, even though they have the "thin" look, I believe National is making the tailpiece for the Nati-horns. I recall we figured out awhile back that there are really only two ways to determine the difference between a Scheerhorn made at National and one made by Tim himself when it comes to these three wood and trim configurations: on the sticker inside the guitar on the Nati-horns it reads "Made in San Luis Obispo, California" and the tailpiece is shaped slightly different than the standard one that has been around for years.

This would pertain to the $2600 mahogany and $3000 maple models. On the $3900 rosewood/spruce Rob Ickes model, the additional form of identification is the little pickguard between the coverplate and soundholes with
"Rob Ickes" inscribed.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 23 May 2014 3:11 pm

i think each individual company should design their own unique tailpiece that enhances the tone znd look of their specific dobro.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 23 May 2014 3:23 pm

chris ivey wrote:i think each individual company should design their own unique tailpiece that enhances the tone znd look of their specific dobro.

While we're at it, I think each company, along with the tailpieces, should design and fabricate their own cones, aluminum spider bridges, coverplates, and tuning machines.

Ron Bednar · Post by **Ron Bednar** » 23 May 2014 3:50 pm

As we all know, there are two sides to every story.

Yep that's true.

Tim Tweedale · Post by **Tim Tweedale** » 24 May 2014 10:14 am

Ah... While I genuinely appreciate the interesting discussion about tailpieces, I was hoping to find out more about how the National-Scheerhorns were stacking up against the originals. Thoughts?

Ron Bednar · Post by **Ron Bednar** » 24 May 2014 11:15 am

Tim, you are absolutely right...
I apologize for taking the thread off track.
I'd like to hear what the differences are too.

Greg Booth · Post by **Greg Booth** » 24 May 2014 11:26 am

Matt Leadbetter posted these side by side comparison videos of a new National Scheerhorn with his '03 Scheerhorn L Body.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=266068376893493

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=266070590226605

Greg Booth · Post by **Greg Booth** » 24 May 2014 11:40 am

Ron Bednar wrote:I have always been bit boggled by even the highest priced resonators using that old relatively thin stamped metal tailpiece.
Any reso can be improved by changing that stamped out relic to a solid metal tailpiece.

If that were the case Tim Scheerhorn and many others would have done that. Tim has experimented with every possible variable over his career... spending big bucks to design esoteric carbon fiber spiders, various shapes and alloys for cones, you name it.

Ron Bednar · Post by **Ron Bednar** » 24 May 2014 11:41 am

Thanks for posting that Greg!
Those are both amazing sounding guitars...
I thought in the first clip the National seemed a little louder.
But couldn't really tell in the second clip.
The National guitar is awesome.

For me...and especially considering the price points...there would be no question.

Regarding the tailpiece...I don't doubt what you say about Tim's searching out and experimenting with everything regarding reso building.
He's probably the best there was and is.

And if I did get one of those guitars I wouldn't change the tailpiece...

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 24 May 2014 2:08 pm

i thought the national was louder, too.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 24 May 2014 2:08 pm

i thought the faux scheerhorn was louder, too.
'clone-a-horn'..?

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 24 May 2014 2:10 pm

Make no mistake about it, beyond purposes of identification, it's my understanding that Tim doesn't think of these as "Nationals" - they are Scheerhorns. He has been pretty adamant on different occasions using a phrase like "these are Scheerhorns." He has placed a lot of faith and trust in National to carry on the legacy in these particular production models. I think it is somewhat like the contemporary specialty luthiers who create faithful reproductions of legendary Martin flattops from back in the day.

There has been a fair amount of posts in the past year on Reso-Nation.org from Eric Smith, partner of Don Young at National Reso-phonic. They have bent over backwards in following Tim's "recipe" for these instruments.

When Tim was building full time he produced about 40 instruments per year and for any number of reasons preferred not to take on any employees and worked solo.

Not the same scenario, but it is more along the lines now of Paul Beard and his handful of employees building Beard guitars. Paul isn't doing the whole thing himself from start to finish, but it is from a template put in place and repeatable methods of quality workmanship.

I would like to see more A/B comparisons because as I recall Matt's videos were done on something like an iPhone (I didn't go back and look at them from Greg's links, saw them when they first came out).

Mike Witcher has done an excellent series of demos so far of some really nice dobros in controlled conditions, I'm waiting for him to get a hold of some of these new Scheerhorns and put them through their paces. For now, you can check out Mike's "Slide Guitar Demo Series" featuring four different instruments here, including Scheerhorn "Wish List #1" which resides not far from me and I've played on a couple occasions:

http://mikewitcher.com/slide-guitar-demo-series/

And I'd really like to see an A/B/C comparison of all three of the new Nati-horns to get a handle on how they differ.

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 24 May 2014 2:33 pm

You guys are killing me! I've got a Clinesmith D-8 console on order...I cannot get the want-me's, I cannot get the want-me's, I cannot get the want-me's.....

(I have the want-me's)

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 24 May 2014 4:10 pm

No Rick, you have it all wrong - you're the one killing me...I have nothing on order and you're waiting on a D-8 from Todd!

Ulrich Sinn · Post by **Ulrich Sinn** » 24 May 2014 4:27 pm

When Tim was building full time he produced about 40 instruments per year

If I take a year with about 2000 hours that would be 50 hours per instrument. Is that true?