| Author |
Topic: Observations from a beginner.... |
Larry Jackson
From:
Morrilton, AR
|
Posted 26 Mar 2014 10:32 pm |
|
I've had my PSG for 3 weeks now and I'm having a great time trying to learn how to play it. I like to learn by ear and from watching videos of other players and teachers. So far I've found out that it takes a lot of finesse and coordination to get the sounds I hear in my head to come out of the speakers. I'm listing a few of the things I'm having to work out, and any tips and advice will be appreciated:
* The string spacing is very close. I play dobro and have been used to six strings. These ten strings are much closer together. I'm practicing the grips. The ones that skip a string are pretty tricky to grab on the fly. Right now I find myself sticking pretty much to 8,6,5, and 6,5,4 and 5,4,3. 10,8,6 is going to take some time.
* Playing in tune with two pedals is taking some practice. I have to be conscious of even pressure to the outer pedal whether it's AB or BC. I've noticed that when I'm pressing AB, for example, the A will pull a little flat. I know it's my fault and not the guitar because when I do it right the notes sound fine. I guess this comes with practice? I've also found out I have to wear my boots when playing, at least starting out....
* The amp I'm playing through right now is an Acoustasonic Jr. 2x8. Mainly because it is two channel and I can run my practice tracks through one channel and my guitar through another. Does anyone else play through one of these?
* The guy I bought it from suggested I buy a chromatic tuner. Does anyone ever tune by ear? So far I have tuned straight across with a common tuner and then flattened the thirds a few cents, whether open or "pulled" until I find a 'happy medium'. It sounds good to my ear...but then again I'm new!
I'm here to learn! Share with me anything you've learned and I will be most grateful.
I apologize for the length of this post! |
|
|
|
Jason Lynch
From:
Essex, United Kingdom
|
Posted 26 Mar 2014 11:03 pm
|
|
Hi Larry. Welcome to the BMI club! I play a 4+5 SD10.
You could try raising the A pedal a smidgin' and see if that helps. I'm four years in myself, and recently moved my pedals around a bit so I'm getting used to their new position. And ive found myself doing the same thing- having the A pedal slightly flat from not enough pressure. I've raised it a little and found it helped. It's easy to do, just take off the pedal rod and screw the quick release connector in a couple of turns.
Last edited by Jason Lynch on 27 Mar 2014 7:02 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
Larry Jackson
From:
Morrilton, AR
|
Posted 26 Mar 2014 11:25 pm
|
|
Hey, thanks Jason!
That makes sense...gives you a little 'head start' on the A pedal. That might even help on the ankle roll while holding down the B, right? Good one!
Larry |
|
|
|
Jason Lynch
From:
Essex, United Kingdom
|
Posted 27 Mar 2014 12:27 am
|
|
| Also I personally play in soft rubber soled deck shoes as I get more feel to the pedals but that's a personal choice. |
|
|
|
Larry Jackson
From:
Morrilton, AR
|
Posted 27 Mar 2014 12:33 am
|
|
Hey, Jason
I understand, but I thought maybe the soft soles were contributing to my playing out of tune. Hey, I've got a long way to go. When I get the hang of it, I may be able to play in soft sole shoes, as well. |
|
|
|
Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
|
Posted 27 Mar 2014 3:31 am
|
|
I find it best to practice in the shoes you will play in. Mine are hard soled diabetic sneakers.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 27 Mar 2014 3:47 am
|
|
Larry - as a beginner myself I can identify with all this! I'm a retired music teacher.
String spacing is the result of fitting ten strings to an 8-string neck at some point in history - you'll get used it. Warm up every day with 10,8,6 - 8,6,5 - 6,5,4 - 5,4,3 and back again on a selection of chords.
You've mentioned the pedal travel thing before. My left ankle is less mobile than my right, which is really annoying, but I persevere. Footwear has been discussed here many times and does seem to be a genuine what-works-for-you topic. Like Scott, I practice in a pair I'm likely to go out in.
Amps need to have plenty of headroom for a clean sound. Most pros use Peaveys. Those are expensive over here, so I got a 100W Fender which is nice and bright.
We don't discuss religion on the forum, but for some reason we are allowed to discuss tuning. Like you, I have a method with pleases me so that I can listen to myself for hours on end without fatigue or subconscious stress. It sounds fine with backing tracks - I might have to rethink when I get to play with other instruments.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
James Leaman
From:
Wisconsin, USA
|
Posted 27 Mar 2014 5:17 am
|
|
| Guys, don't forget about grip 8,5,3. It has tons of uses and sounds beautiful. |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 27 Mar 2014 5:25 am
|
|
Hey, we're only beginners! You're right though James, also 9,6,4 - both are basic grips on the C6.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
Erich Meisberger
From:
Vermont, USA
|
|
|
|
Alan Bidmade
From:
Newcastle upon Tyne UK
|
Posted 27 Mar 2014 9:19 am
|
|
Hi Larry
Try tuning your A pedal with both A and B depressed, and tune B with A+B in. Similarly B+C. You might also find you need to fine tune A with F lever - it's all about compromise. Invest in a good tuner - the best you can afford. Second hand should be fine if cash is a problem - steel players tend to look after their gear so you should be able to get a good buy via the forum.
_________________
Ben-Rom #017 'Lorelei', Guild D25, Epiphone 'Joe Pass', Roland 40XL, Hilton VP
First name Alan, but known as Nick |
|
|
|
Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
|
Posted 27 Mar 2014 5:56 pm
|
|
Welcome Larry.
I too am fairly new to pedals and have the same problems as you mentioned. I have played a lot more 6 string lap steel with 3/8 spacing and the 10 string does seem a bit crowded. I also have the AB pedal issue as well and just finished raising my A pedal a bit. It does seem to help, just don't go too far with it. Best of luck with your new steel.
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
|
|
|
David Scheidler
From:
Arizona, USA
|
Posted 27 Mar 2014 7:23 pm Chord grips
|
|
Newbie here also... Here's a sample from one of the lessons I use that offers a good workout for practicing chord grips. I expand on the exercise by including ascending, descending and alternating patterns between grips. About fifteen minutes a day on this exercise helps me to "feel" the placement of the grips without having to look, so often, to see where I'm going next. I haven't perfected it by any means, but it definitely has improved my confidence and speeded up the process of learning new songs. Page 5 of this lesson gives you a song - Amazing Grace - to learn using these grips. It took me a solid week to get the song down where I could play the whole thing without any mistakes. Now I can pretty much breeze through it. Some other good exercises can be found at steelguitaracademy.com under the Beginner tab in the left column. Good luck and have fun!
 |
|
|
|
Bill Rowlett
From:
Russellville, AR, USA
|
Posted 28 Mar 2014 12:11 pm
|
|
Hi Larry,
Where do you live? I'm in Russellville. There are some fine players spread around this state. Somebody will be close by...
Bill |
|
|
|
Larry Jackson
From:
Morrilton, AR
|
Posted 28 Mar 2014 1:51 pm
|
|
| Bill Rowlett wrote: |
Hi Larry,
Where do you live? I'm in Russellville. There are some fine players spread around this state. Somebody will be close by...
Bill |
Hi Bill,
I'm just down the road a piece in the Morrilton area. |
|
|
|
Larry Jackson
From:
Morrilton, AR
|
Posted 28 Mar 2014 1:53 pm
|
|
| Thank you, everybody for the responses. I can already see that this community of players is going to be a great help! |
|
|
|
Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
|
Posted 28 Mar 2014 1:59 pm
|
|
Larry, just one more note. When I was setting my pedals on the Carter Starter last night, I eyeballed them and thought I had it like I wanted it but it still seemed hard to get the A pedal down. When I got a tape measure and actually measured the distance from the pedal I was surprised to see that the B pedal was in fact still higher than the A pedal...hard to judge by eyes where the pedals are. I set the A pedal about 1/8" higher than the B pedal...big difference.
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
|
|
|
Larry Jackson
From:
Morrilton, AR
|
Posted 28 Mar 2014 6:37 pm
|
|
[quote="Jim Williams"]Larry, just one more note. When I was setting my pedals on the Carter Starter last night, I eyeballed them and thought I had it like I wanted it but it still seemed hard to get the A pedal down. When I got a tape measure and actually measured the distance from the pedal I was surprised to see that the B pedal was in fact still higher than the A pedal...hard to judge by eyes where the pedals are. I set the A pedal about 1/8" higher than the B pedal...big difference.[/quote
Yeah, Jim. I messed with mine a little, too. I raised the A all it would go, which wasn't much. Finally wound up lowering the B a bit. Much better.
I also noticed my pedals have additional holes where the rod can be reattached. I guess for raising and lowering, as well. I hadn't even noticed the holes before. |
|
|
|
Bill Davison
From:
Just far enough away from Seattle, WA, USA
|
Posted 28 Mar 2014 7:24 pm "
|
|
| WoW! I'm glad to see that there are so many nubies to the PSG here on the forum. I thought and was afraid that I would be the only one. I can see that this is going to be a great learning experence. I also much appreciate all the input from the experts. Thank you. |
|
|
|
Bob Russell
From:
Virginia, USA
|
Posted 28 Mar 2014 7:48 pm
|
|
| Ian Rae wrote: |
We don't discuss religion on the forum, but for some reason we are allowed to discuss tuning. |
One of the funniest things I've seen on the forum so far!  |
|
|
|
Bill Rowlett
From:
Russellville, AR, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2014 10:40 am
|
|
Hi Larry,
Can't get much closer than Morrilton
I used to play dances there in the family entertainment center with Red Barnes for several years.
Also played cajun music with Mark Sponer, although I haven't been able to get in touch with him for a year or so...
My email is correct in my profile. Sometimes, I'm more retired than others, but I can always find the time to get together.
Bill |
|
|
|
Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2014 8:17 pm
|
|
I'm just a little bit past my first year in to learning pedal steel and here is some stuff I found helpful along the way:
1) Buy Winnie Winston's book
2) Get your guitar properly set up (it was so worth it for me to do so)
3) Oil the guitar once a month or so and clean up the dirt with a rag (I use 3 in 1 oil) and you will be amazed out how great your guitar sounds. Mine sustains longer when I do it. There's threads on this board that will discuss how to do so.
4) Take lessons from a teacher.
5) I bought a used Emmons and I replaced the volume pedal with a Goodrich Pedal. My guitar sounded a LOT better after I did this. The Emmons pedal was a piece of junk and it caused me to lose a great deal of my signal. I'm a firm believer in quality components. George L Cables, BJS Bars, and either a Goodrich volume Pedal or a Hilton. All of these will improve your tone and sustain and will make that pedal steel sing.
I hope that helps. |
|
|
|
Larry Jackson
From:
Morrilton, AR
|
Posted 31 Mar 2014 8:21 pm
|
|
| Bill Rowlett wrote: |
Hi Larry,
Can't get much closer than Morrilton
I used to play dances there in the family entertainment center with Red Barnes for several years.
Also played cajun music with Mark Sponer, although I haven't been able to get in touch with him for a year or so...
My email is correct in my profile. Sometimes, I'm more retired than others, but I can always find the time to get together.
Bill |
I remember Red Barnes. I also know Mark Sponer. Never heard him play his squeeze box yet, but he played bass for us one night at a jam. We have a jam in Hattieville every 2nd Friday night of the month. Sometimes it's great and other times it's just a few there. It's all accoustic, though. That means dobro for me.
You might know the man I bought my steel from, Ray Ramsey of Searcy?
_________________
BMI S10, Beard E model reso, Gold Tone Deluxe Beard Sig. reso, Guild acoustic guitar |
|
|
|
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
|
Posted 31 Mar 2014 8:37 pm
|
|
| Mark Hershey wrote: |
I'm just a little bit past my first year in to learning pedal steel and here is some stuff I found helpful along the way:
...
3) Oil the guitar once a month or so and clean up the dirt with a rag (I use 3 in 1 oil) and you will be amazed out how great your guitar sounds. Mine sustains longer when I do it. There's threads on this board that will discuss how to do so.
|
That's a LOT more often than the makers recommend. Zum recommends roughly yearly, a drop per finger. Too much can build up sludge
| Quote: |
5) I bought a used Emmons and I replaced the volume pedal with a Goodrich Pedal. My guitar sounded a LOT better after I did this. The Emmons pedal was a piece of junk and it caused me to lose a great deal of my signal... |
Umm, I recommend looking at the electronics of the Goodrich (assuming L120) vs. the electronics of the Emmons. THEY'RE IDENTICAL. Same jacks, same pots, same gauge of copper wire.
And a simple pot pedal between a guitar and a Fender Twin have recorded some of the best stuff ever.
That said, I almost always use a Lil' Izzy buffer.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
|
|
|
Mark Hershey
From:
New York, USA
|
Posted 1 Apr 2014 4:20 am
|
|
| Lane Gray wrote: |
| Mark Hershey wrote: |
I'm just a little bit past my first year in to learning pedal steel and here is some stuff I found helpful along the way:
...
3) Oil the guitar once a month or so and clean up the dirt with a rag (I use 3 in 1 oil) and you will be amazed out how great your guitar sounds. Mine sustains longer when I do it. There's threads on this board that will discuss how to do so.
|
That's a LOT more often than the makers recommend. Zum recommends roughly yearly, a drop per finger. Too much can build up sludge
| Quote: |
5) I bought a used Emmons and I replaced the volume pedal with a Goodrich Pedal. My guitar sounded a LOT better after I did this. The Emmons pedal was a piece of junk and it caused me to lose a great deal of my signal... |
Umm, I recommend looking at the electronics of the Goodrich (assuming L120) vs. the electronics of the Emmons. THEY'RE IDENTICAL. Same jacks, same pots, same gauge of copper wire.
And a simple pot pedal between a guitar and a Fender Twin have recorded some of the best stuff ever.
That said, I almost always use a Lil' Izzy buffer. |
You are probably right regarding the Emmons. I'm assuming my volume pedal has a bad pot or something is up with it. The Goodrich sounds night and day better. The signal comes through much clearer and was a huge improvement in the sound of my steel. The Emmons volume pedal is from the 70's so it just isn't functioning like it probably should.
Re: the oiling of guitar I guess I don't know what I'm doing. 
I was just oiling the rollers and the changers. Every time I was amazed out how much dirt I was getting out of there and the thing sounded great after I did so. I will pull back to once every six months, definitely don't want to damage my steel. |
|
|
|
