Pedal Steel Changes

[Stefan Robertson]

What are the Pedal steel NOTES that are used for that key pedal sound.

You can get a pedal feel on a lap steel without the pull but it takes practice and the right hand muting has to be timed accurately.
Here is a sample of my 6 string C6th standard tuning playing some country. If it turns you on shoot me an email...if it does not...I tried.

http://picosong.com/eJYN

I will help all I can.

Roy

I want to know the Notes that change/required to achieve the pedal sound. Notes please. I emailed you Roy but haven't heard back.

Amyone else can clarify what are the key Pedal sound changes.

[Jerome Hawkes]

i would say the most basic is the (scale tone) 3 moving 1/2 step to the 4 with the B pedal and the 5 moving up 1 whole tone to 6 with the A pedal. this is often done as either 1 move A+B together, or independent B then A or A to B. that is the sound - you can play just about anything with just those 2 pedals - basically changing a 1 chord to a 4 chord.
it is of interest to note that the MAJOR evolutionary moment was not that Bud Issacs necessarily used that pedal change (it was on many guitars), which he had on 1 pedal doing both moves, but that Buddy Emmons split the change into 2 pedals, thus creating the springboard for all that came afterwards

[J Fletcher]

I think the major evolutionary change was the sound of the I chord moving to the IV chord, that is you could hear the pedals in action, some tones moving while others remained static. 1954 or so.
Pedal steels had been around since the late 30's.
From what I understand, when people heard what Bud Issacs played on Webb Pierces "Slowly", the world of steel guitar was forever changed.
Emmons' idea was brilliant, naturally...Jerry

[Josh Braun]

I'm guessing that lots of other folks can do it better than me, but here's how I did it:

1) I used a volume pedal exactly like a psg player would (not note choices)
2) I used harmonized scales and slid into different voicings/changes

Note that I couldn't do what a PSG really does: have a note(s) change while another note(s) remains static. You can try and approximate with slants, but I couldn't get it to a satisfactory level.

The folks I played with were happy and enjoyed the results. I always felt like the voicings I used just weren't rich enough (usually 2 notes vs 3 notes on PSG).

I realized after a short time that what I really wanted to be doing was playing PSG - that was the sound I was after. I became much happier when I gave up PSG impersonations on the lap steel and jumped on the PSG itself.

But other guys, probably all y'all, can play circles around me. My strategy was really about accepting my limitations and realizing what I truly wanted.

[Stefan Robertson]

If you've ever seen, Don Helms, Billy Robinson, Kayton Roberts, Chris Scruggs you would get what I mean.

No pedals needed. Slants and string pulls. But my question was....

What NOTES are changing?

People said a 1 to a 4? What notes. Is it a CMaj C, E, G- Fminor etc. Gte the idea what notes give that sound.

Thanks.

[Josh Braun]

J Fletcher already mentioned it above, but in the Key of C:

From I-IV:

E goes to F
G goes to A
C remains C

That's the classic PSG move, because the A pedal typically raises the 5th to a 6th (G to A, and the B pedal raises the 3rd to the 4th (E to F).

Some guys can do pulls behind the bar to mimic this perfectly.

[Stefan Robertson]

Thanks Josh that is what I was looking for. C major change to F major

Any other changes of notes give that sound.

[Steve Lipsey]

the classic riff is hold the I note and move the 2 to a 3
play C and D, move D to E. hard to do on a lap, but you come very close just slanting into the I chord from just below.
play B and D (slant), slide up to C and E

[Stefan Robertson]

the classic riff is hold the I note and move the 2 to a 3
play C and D, move D to E. hard to do on a lap, but you come very close just slanting into the I chord from just below.
play B and D (slant), slide up to C and E

So

Hold C
Play D -Move E

and
Play B - Move C
with D - Move E

2 note chord yes? Is that correct

[Steve Lipsey]

well, it isn't actually a chord, but it is the classic pedal steel ending to about half of all country songs...

[Stefan Robertson]

Thanks what about the chords when the pedals or levers are engaged?

[Steve Lipsey]

well- I went through the same thing and ended up switching from lap to pedal steel for the band...EVERY change, pretty much, involves pedals and levers...you can slant and slide also, but those are used for effect as part of playing - the levers and pedals are the trick that makes it sound that way.

So, either get a Duesenberg multibender for your lap steel, or get a pedal steel...you can drive yourself nuts trying to be a pedal steel on a lap steel. IMHO.

but throwing in a forward slant slide to a I-IV change and using that 2-note riff can provide a lot of impact to an audience that isn't sophisticated....

[b0b]

The sound most associated with pedal steel is the I-IV change. In E, it raises the E chord first inversion (G# B E G#) to an A chord (A C# E A).

The is done with 2 pedals. The first pedal raises B to C#, and the second pedal raises both G# strings to A. The pedals can be used together (for a full E to A chord change) or independently.

[Kekoa Blanchet]

So if you're setting up a Duesenberg Multibender on a 6-string C6 neck, how would you do it?

One bender on string 4, to raise the pitch 1 step (like the A pedal), and another bender on string 5, to raise the pitch 1/2 step (like the B pedal)?

Would this let you do the riff that Steve Lipsey was talking about?

[b0b]

I don't know how the Deusenberg works, but if there's a way to raise 2 strings on one lever, you should raise both E strings to F.
[tab] L1 L2
E +F
C
A
G ++A
E +F
C [/tab]
The lick that Steve Lipsey describes would be played at the 7th fret on strings 4 and 5.

[Adam Nero]

It's a little weird to take these little tricks out of context, but yeah, I think finding cool ways to do the I - IV change is a huge part of what we're talking about here. I like a high c6 tuning because the tonic triad (CEG) makes slanting the top two to the subdominant IV (FA with the implied C) very easy (and is a comfortable transition from the dobro)... this may format oddly. But this is my basic I - IV "go-to" slant. Hope it helps.

G 12 14
E 12 13
C 12
A
G
E
C
A

Note that this shape gets you the IV of the I. The IV of the V, if you will, is the I chord. So you can of course use this same shape beginning on the frets 7 or 19 in the key of c, for example, to resolve to the C chord, which is your tonal home base.

[Steve Lipsey]

Duesenberg can only raise or lower one string per lever (so pick which of the two you want to raise for this change). three levers is about the most you could manage and still be able to play the thing - it isn't easy, having to pick, block, and press the lever with the same hand...

[Stefan Robertson]

Thanks guys for such great feedback and I think I have a better grasp now on what some of the changes are.

I'm definitely sticking to Lap Steel Guitar steel. If others can do it with a Lap Steel Guitar steel and have done it before pedal steel existed I will to.

Didn't expect it to be easy thats for sure.

So much knowledge out there. Thanks for any help.

[Roy Thomson]

Hi Stefan,
I have not been checking in regularly on the Forum as I am in Florida on vacation. Will be back early April.

Here is a little change from E to A for practice sake.

C6th tuning E=C=A=G=E=C HIGH TO LOW

Bar at fret 4...
Play string 2 and let sustain
Play string 4 followed by 3
as you pick string 3 block string 4 with thumb pick

When you get it right this moves from key E to A

Ex 2.... Bar at fret 4

Play together strings 2 and 4...let sustain

Pick string 3 while blocking 4 with thumb pick

Again the E to A change.

There are many ways to use this technique and it is accurate when mastered. Bar slants and string pulls I use also but you can never depend on accuracy especially if playing 3 strings at once.

Some thoughts on approach and hope it is of some help.

Roy in Florida and it has been Beautiful compared to home in Nova Scotia at this time of year.

[Donald Fullmer]

Stefan,If you have an old lap steel laying around give this a try.Invert the strings of the E-9th Tuning so when you do a forward slant the notes will come out right.




B to C# your forward slant will be perfect with a little practice.This little trick
G#to A
E.

also works for the pedal change on strings 3-4-5 Put another 14 gauge string above the B note up there then the11 gauge G# note above that then a B note above that
and you will have another forward slant for that pedal change.Now you can do the exact pedal changes just like a pedal steel.
Hope this helps .Don the Beachcomer

[b0b]

The back slant isn't hard to do. Put your thumb on the heel of the bar and move it forward, controlling the nose of the bar with your fingers.
[tab]
chord G C
E ___________ 7--8______
C ____________|__\______
A ____________|___\_____
G ___________ 7---9_____
E ______________________
C ______________________
notes B--C
D--E
[/tab]

[Adam Nero]

The back slant isn't hard to do. Put your thumb on the heel of the bar and move it forward, controlling the nose of the bar with your fingers.
[tab]
chord G C
E ___________ 7--8______
C ____________|__\______
A ____________|___\_____
G ___________ 7---9_____
E ______________________
C ______________________
notes B--C
D--E
[/tab]

maybe that's a testament to your mastery, but until very recently, i found them to be very challenging!

once i got the right bar in my hand, i learned it quickly enough... i find them most manageable with a smaller-than-pedal-steel-style bullet bar. i've seen some pull them off with stevens-type bars, but for the life of me i don't know how that happens without the little indentation like the one on the butt-end of my bullet bar, and a bar short enough to make use of said butt-end.