Modes

Ivan Posa · Post by **Ivan Posa** » 5 Nov 2003 12:32 pm

Does anybody have a simple explanation of Modes and how they work?

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Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 5 Nov 2003 12:50 pm

Take a look at this from the web. Realize that when you start with the CMajor scale you war working with all the natural notes -- no sharps or flats. (C D E F G A B C) The diatonic modes are traversed by starting on C and going through the scale (Ionian); if you start on D (D E F G A B C D) it's Dorian mode (minor 7 tonality); E is Phrygian; F is Lydian; G is Mixolydian; A is Aeolian; B is Locrian.

To analyze them:
Note whether the third is major or minor
Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian, and Locrian are minor - the rest have Major 3rds

Note whether the seventh is major or minor (Dominant)

Note what other scale tones are altered. These three pieces of information will help guide how you use them.

Learn the Major/Ionian; mi7/Dorian; Dom7/Mixolydian first. You will use them most: Ionian over Ma7 family chords; Mixo over Dom7 family chords; Dorian over mi7 family chords.

Hope this helps. There is a lot of musical diversity in the diatonic modes. Learning to use them is powerful because you only have to learn a single scale 'movement' (which strings, pedals, levers, etc.) to play many different sounding scales over a variety of chords.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 5 Nov 2003 1:47 pm

Everything Larry said is correct. I'll just try to orient you with a bit of an overview. The starting point is the major scale, for example the C major scale is C D E F G A B. Music theory says that when you see a C major chord in a song, you can play ANY combination of the notes of the C major scale over the chord and it will sound correct (diatonic) against the chord. Now, suppose you have a Dm7 chord. Since it is minor, you can't use the D major scale. Instead, you can use the C major scale again, since the notes of the Dm7 are D F A C, which are in the C major scale (see the scale above). When you use the notes of the C major scale over a Dm7, that is called the Dorian (2nd) mode of the C major scale, or just D Dorian for short, and is written D E F G A B C, same notes as the C major scale. Technically, D Dorian is a scale, but since it is DERIVED from the C major scale, and shares the exact same notes, it is called a mode instead, but it's still a scale. That's basically it. The trick of the whole thing is knowing when to use each of these modes. For example, over the Dm7 chord, as I just said, you can play the notes of the D Dorian mode (from the C major scale). However, you could also use the D Phrygian mode (from the Bb major scale). Or the D aeolian mode. Or you could use D harmonic minor, which is not even a mode of the C major scale, but a separate scale unto itself. Or D melodic minor. Or so on and on and on... But you only asked for the concept of what a mode is, so we'll leave it at that. .. Jeff

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Jeff's Jazz

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 5 Nov 2003 2:02 pm

Larry.

DAMN!

It was all right in front of me the WHOLE TIME!

Seriously though I've found the "Non-Pedal" section to house a wealth of knowledge.

As Jeff mentions, "knowing when to use them" can be a lifetime project..

EJL

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 5 Nov 2003 3:12 pm

The only thing I would add is that the real parent scale is the diatonic scale, meaning the same arrangment of notes as the white keys of the piano, that is ...WWHWWWHWWHWWWHWWHWWWH..., etc. The major scale is simply one of the modes. Back in the day, 10th century to mid 17th century, it was viewed like that. In early Church music, the major scale was not used, and the dorian segment was the first mode. Nowadays, Western music is major scale oriented, and folks speak of dorian etc. as modes of the major scale, but technically, it ain't so.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 5 Nov 2003 3:27 pm

Just what Larry and Jeff said- I'd add that another super useful mode to get into right away is the aeolian, or 6th mode (C major from A to A = A minor aeolian). This one is why basic songs with the "relative minor" chord included (think "Country Roads" sound good playing the key Major scale over the whole tune. If that song were in G, and you improvised out of just the G scale, Under the G chords you'd be playing Ionian mode, under the C chords lydian, under the D chords mixolydian, and under the Em chords aeolian, all without changing your scale. The trick is phrasing under each chord to bring out the desired chord tones or melody. One easy way to get started with modes is via repositioning: The Dorian mode is the second one in the series, based on playing the parent major scale from it's second note to it's 9th note. So to play Em dorian, think of anywhere you'd play a regular E major scale, back up two frets, and there you are. You can work on phrasing to and from the E minor chord tones, but it will sound great if you just play D major licks and patterns over E minor. To play E minor Aeolian, simply play a G major scale position (or "up three frets" from the normal major postion to get the Aeolian minor sound. The beauty of this simple approach is that everything you've ever learned scalewise becomes the fodder for at least 7 different scale/chord types. For example, a simple C major scale sequence like C,D,E-C,D,E,F-D,E,F,G-E,F,G,A and so on becomes a powerful creative pattern for minor, major, dominant, and diminished chord needs. Each of the modes has a distinctive feel or "vibe", if you will- to me, Ionian is the vanilla major tone, Dorian is a soft, somewhat jazzy minor, Phrygian is an edgier Eastern-sounding minor, Lydian has a soft Jazz or pop major sound, Mixolydian is classic bluesy dominant or rockabilly land, Aeolian is the smooth natural minor (Santana lived here a lot), and Locrian has the more "outside" sound of the half diminished or minor7 flat 5 chjords, a great substitue for the dominant chord in a progression. The more you play with them the more you'll hear your own interpretation.

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 5 Nov 2003 11:47 pm

Any mode will also dictate the order of the different chords, that means which chord is a major chord and which chord is minor. The order of the chords will always stay the same, you just start in a different place for each mode.
C major scale would have chords like this
Imaj7 --- IIm7 --- IIIm7 IVmaj7 --- V7 --- VIm7 --- VIIm7b5
Or like this
Cmaj7 --- Dm7 --- Em7 Fmaj7 --- G7 --- Am7 --- Bm7b5
Reason for using roman numerals is that it explains the harmonizing and intervals between chords for all twelve Major-Scales.

A G-mixolydian scale (which fits a Dom7th chord(G)) would therefore equal a Cmajor scale (or D-dorian or Ephrygian and so on)

But another easy way to remember the notes of a mixolydian scale is to combine the V7 and VIm7. Meaning a G7 + Am7 ( V7+VIm7 )contains all the notes of a G-mixolydian scale.

A little more study of the harmonized sequence of chords will also reveal that the IVchord below the V7 contains all the 7th' 9ths. 11ths and 13th of the Vchord.

Substituting every other chord up the scale extends the original chord so playing a VIIm7b5 against a V chord would make it a Dom9th sound.

So every place you find a major chord or a minor chord on your guitar you should immediately understand and know that the exact same grip/fingering occours at three places/frets since the harmonized scale only contains 3 major chords and 3 minor chords.

Eventually one will spend less time looking for where the chords are and more time playing music.

Bengt Erlandsen

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 6 Nov 2003 6:51 am

Mark brought up something cool that often gets overlooked in a mechanical discussion of modes - the "vibe", "mood", or "flavor" created by each one.

Have a good technical/mechanical fix on what modes are, but don't forget that there are moods/flavors [many that your ear already may recognize] that help you get a coneptual handle on things. Remember, music theory is just about attaching names to concepts that your ears have heard all your life [granted, some more familiar than others]...

[This message was edited by Nathan Delacretaz on 06 November 2003 at 06:52 AM.][This message was edited by Nathan Delacretaz on 06 November 2003 at 07:09 AM.]

Ivan Posa · Post by **Ivan Posa** » 6 Nov 2003 12:03 pm

Thanks everyone for your posts. A dim light is flickering and getting brighter. With more study I am sure full power will arrive to illuminate me....IP

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[This message was edited by Ivan Posa on 06 November 2003 at 12:04 PM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 6 Nov 2003 5:23 pm

Here’s about the most basic explanation I can come up with:

Each mode is a different “starting place” in the major scale. There are 7 modes of the major scale, each one having a Greek name.

This is a C Scale:
<pre>
C D E F G A B C
</pre>
It starts on the C note (1) and goes up one octave to the next C note.

Now play this C scale (SAME NOTES) starting on 2nd interval (D). Play from D up to the next D:
<pre>
D E F G A B C D
</pre>
This is called the Dorian Mode. Many people think… big deal, it’s still a C scale… yes, it is a C scale starting on 2, But if you consider D to be the root note you then have a “new scale” unlike any other. It’s called the Dorian mode. It is actually the same as the Minor scale except that it has a natural 6th tone. So it yields a slightly different sound because of the natural 6th. You would play D Dorian over songs in the key of D minor. Remember… it’s still a C Major scale (same notes). So many players would simply play “C over Dm”. In other words, if a song is in the key of Dm, you play the C scale over the chord changes…. and you are playing D Dorian…. same thing. I find this easier than memorizing a bunch of Dorian patterns (both on regular guitar and on steel).

The 3rd mode of the major scale is called Phrygian:

Here is a normal C Scale:
<pre>
C D E F G A B C
</pre>
Now play this C scale (SAME NOTES) starting on 3nd interval (E) Play from E up to the next E:
<pre>
E F G A B C D E
</pre>
This is called the Phrygian Mode. Consider E to be the root note and play these notes over songs in the key of E. You’d be playing E Phrygian. Phrygian has a distinct “Latin flavor”, or a Spanish sound. Nothing else sounds like it. Of course, it’s also the C major scale (same notes), played over songs in the key of E. If you play standard guitar, pick string 6 (E) open , and while it’s ringing, play a C scale up on the neck. You’ll hear the “Spanish sound“. You’re playing E Phrygian or if you prefer, C Major over E.

There’s a lot more to say about this, but my fingers and my brain are hurtin’! Best of luck with it.

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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories
[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 06 November 2003 at 05:31 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 6 Nov 2003 6:48 pm

My niece is a music teacher, and she explained it to me thusly--
Ionian-"Do to Do"
Dorian-Re to Re"
Phrygian-"Mi to Mi"
Lydian-"Fa to Fa"
Mixolydian-"So to So"
Aeolian-"La to La"
Locrian-"Ti to Ti"
And of course, the mnemonic device, I Don't Play Like My Aunt Lois.

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 6 Nov 2003 8:28 pm

Ha. That's wierd, Stephen.

The device I personally thought up was "I did play like my Aunt Laura, before I learned modes."

Ivan Posa · Post by **Ivan Posa** » 7 Nov 2003 1:02 am

The light bulb is definitely getting brighter....IP

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[This message was edited by Ivan Posa on 07 November 2003 at 01:03 AM.]

Jody Cameron · Post by **Jody Cameron** » 7 Nov 2003 5:42 am

Doug Beaumier -

Your post is the single most concise, clear and to-the-point explanation of modes I have ever heard or read. Great job, and thanks!

Jody Cameron

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 7 Nov 2003 9:34 am

Thanks Jody, Modes are a difficult concept to grasp. Learning them on paper is one part of the equation. The other part is learning how to use them in a practical playing situation. I've been teaching modes (among other things) to my guitar students for many years. Modes seems to more useful on regular guitar than on steel, for some reason.

I don't "think modes" too often on steel, however recently the modes saved me in a recording situation. The song was in the key of D, and it was blazing fast with a lot of very quick chord changes within the key D. The primary chord was D7, and most of the relative chords were 7ths. I needed to come up with a solo on the spot, and a "D major" solo would have been a little too "sweet" for this song because of the 7th chords. Because the changes were based around D7, D Mixolydian would be perfect. Mixolydian is the 5th mode of the major scale, and it's the same as a Major scale... with a flatted 7th. D Mixolydian has the same notes as G major. So throughout the solo I was thinking "G Major scale", even though the song was in the key of D. Speedpicking riffs in G major blended perfectly over the chord changes in D(7)... It sounded like I actually knew what I was doing! Here's how to remember where to play for Mixolydian... play "a 4th above" the key. If the song is in D, you play off the G major scale... same notes as the D scale with a flatted 7th.

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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 07 November 2003 at 09:55 AM.]

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 7 Nov 2003 9:45 am

http://steelguitarforum.com/Archives/Archive-000003/HTML/20011227-1-012618.html

-John

Ivan Posa · Post by **Ivan Posa** » 7 Nov 2003 12:38 pm

Doug, in your last post you mention D Mixolodian is the G maj scale or up 4 on the fretbord. Would this apply to the other 6 modes and if so what is the relevant scale positions for them?....IP

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Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 7 Nov 2003 1:30 pm

I don't have an Aunt Lois or Laura, so I use:

I Dont Play Lydian Mode After Liposuction

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 7 Nov 2003 1:32 pm

Ivan, The same "4th above" rule applies for each key, to get to the Mixolydian mode, however the rules for locating which major scale to play in a given song are different for each mode. Also, certain modes are used for minor keys, certain for major, etc.

It's fairly complicated, but here's how I approach it: Say a song is in the key of Am. You could solo off the natural Minor scale (which is called the Aolean mode) or you could play A Dorian. The Dorian mode is the 2nd mode of the major scale. Once you decide to play A Dorian, you then need to determine which major scale has A as it's 2nd note. The answer: G major. So you play the G major scale over Am (and over the other chords in the key of Am). It's the same as playing the Am scale with a natural 6th tone. This yields a somewhat different sound than the natural minor scale. Some players would memorize "Dorian patterns" starting on the root note for whatever key the song is in. I find it easier to transpose to whatever major scale I need to play that mode. It's an extra step, but if you already know the major scale well, it seems a lot easier.

For Phrygian (mode 3) in the key of A: which major scale has A as it's 3rd note? Answer: the F major scale. So to play A Prygian, play the F scale over the A chord. It's just that simple

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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 7 Nov 2003 1:36 pm

A big BIG thing to define the mode is the chord of the moment- for example, Phyrgian: against Em, run that C scale from E to E and it sounds very Spanish. Change that chord to a C, even if you center your lines on E notes; it'll sound like downtown Centerville again

So the CHORD really defines the mode (or MOOD).

Ivan Posa · Post by **Ivan Posa** » 7 Nov 2003 1:57 pm

Thanks Doug, everything is becoming clearer for me. I will sit down at my electric keyboard and work through this now that I have an idea of how the modes work....IP

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 7 Nov 2003 5:09 pm

Once one gets a understanding of how the order of chords are harmonized thru the scale and that the order of chords stays the same as long as you stick to a diatonic scale a lot of possibilities and for soloing and substituting chords will open up.
This applies to any tuning you might fancy on the guitar.
C Major scale harmonizes in the following order
<pre>
C - D - E F - G - A - B C
Maj --- min --- min Maj --- Maj --- min --- dim Maj
</pre>

Playing a triad off the 3rd note from a scale will give you a 7thchord off the note found two notes down (Em = Cmaj7)
<pre>
1 - - - 3 - - 5 - - - 7
C - - - E - - G - - - B = Cmaj7
- - - - E - - G - - - B = Em
</pre>

Playing a triad off the 5th note from a scale will give a 9th chord. Dm = G9
<pre>
1 - - - 3 - - 5 - -b7 - - - 9
G - - - B - - D - - F - - - A = G9
- - - - - - - D - - F - - - A = Dm
</pre>

Understanding this order of chords has helped my playing and improvisation and harmonizing scales bigtime.

Bengt

Donald Davis · Post by **Donald Davis** » 7 Nov 2003 6:46 pm

One should be able to tell how each mode compares to its major scale. For example, the Dorian mode flats the 3rd and the 7th of the major scale. Here is a chart:

Dorian -3,-7
Phrygian -2,-3,-6,-7
Lydian +4
Mixolydian -7
Aeolian(pure minor)-3,-6,-7
Locrian -2,-3,-5,-6,-7

I have a disc coming out for Christmas which primarily features my lap steel, but I did play my Pro 1 on one song. I think I can put my website down here: DonDavisMusic.com

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 8 Nov 2003 1:50 am

If one sorts "Cycle of 5th's" the previous example starting w Lydian things would look like this.
<pre>
Major scale 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Lydian -- -- -- #4 -- -- --
Ionian -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Mixolydian -- -- -- -- -- -- b7
Dorian -- -- b3 -- -- -- b7
Aeolian -- -- b3 -- -- b6 b7
Phrygian -- b2 b3 -- -- b6 b7
Locrian -- b2 b3 -- b5 b6 b7
</pre>

I left out the notes that don't get changed to get the changes between scales easier to see.
Looking at that picture the note that gets the "b" also moves thru the "cycle of 5th's"
If the example used C-lydian C D E F# G A B as the starting point the notes would then change.... flat (b) F# then B, E, A, D, G, and so on, and if we continue to flat the C we started at we end up with a B-lydian scale a half tone lower than C lydian.

Looking at positions for 1 3 5 & 7 in the example one will see 2 maj7th chords followed by a Dom7 follow by (relative minors) 3 minor7th chords and at last 1 minor7b5 chord

All the "b"s in the locrian scale line up w the layout of black keys on the piano.

The 5 "b"s of the locrian scale is also a major pentatonic scale. So a major pentatonic scale contains 5 succsessive notes from the Cycle of 5ths.

This might seem confusing at first but after a while and a couple "why did I not see that before/earlier" one will "forget" about all this and just play music.

The cycle of 5ths is a wonderful thing

Bengt[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 08 November 2003 at 02:06 AM.]

Chris Lasher · Post by **Chris Lasher** » 9 Nov 2003 11:13 am

I really like the way Bengt and Don put it. I usually think of building all my modes as relative to a major scale. Since the major scale is one of the first things I learned in music, it's something very familiar, and it lends itself to a good foundation for everything else. Basically with a chart like Bengt's or Don's, if you can build your major scale, you can build any mode you want.

Unfortunately, thinking this way acts as a shortcut, and doesn't provide you with the "Why" of it that others have explained above. Learning the background behind them will increase familiarity with the modes, as well as appreciation for Western music.

As John stated, the chord movements often outline for you the modes that would work best. For instance, the chord movement of C, G, D, C would contain the following notes:
<pre>
C: C-E-G
G: G-B-D
D: D-F#-A
C: C-E-G
In order:
C-D-E-F#-G-A-B-C
1-2-3-#4-5-6-7-1
Relative to Major Scale
</pre>
If we look at the charts layed out by Bengt and Don, we see that the notes used in this progression outline the Lydian mode.

A good way to get familiar with the sounds of modes and scales is to play them over a low droning note. For instance, ring out the D on the open 9 string, and then starting at the third fret of the fifth string (B string), play all the way up and then all the way back down the D Ionian mode
<pre>
B:---3---5---7---8--10--12--14--15---

B:--15--14--12--10---8---7---5---3---
</pre>
And then do it again in, say, D Dorian
<pre>
B:---3---5---6---8--10--12--13--15---

B:--15--13--12--10---8---6---5---3---
</pre>
Since you are doing this over a constant droning root note, it gives your ear an accurate comparison as to how the scales and modes differ, and this allows you to form an "opinion" about each mode and scale, and give it context that has meaning to you. This is what's most important, since music, just like any language, is approached by different people in different, unique ways.

Edit: I should give mention that I lifted this idea from Joe Satriani, who probably lifted it off of some anonymous soul. Just wanted to give credit where credit is due.[This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 09 November 2003 at 11:17 AM.][This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 09 November 2003 at 11:24 AM.]