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Topic: Emmons P/P Timeline List Provided by Carter |
Nick Reed
From:
Russellville, KY USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2003 1:02 pm |
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| Does anyone know if the P/P timeline link Carter Steels once had posted is still available and online. A frind of mine in Denmark is wanting to trace the serial # on a P/P and find out when it was made. Any help wil be appreciated, Thanks. Nick |
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Rainer Hackstaette
From:
Bohmte, Germany
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Posted 18 Oct 2003 1:13 pm
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Nick,
here it is.
Rainer
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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '76 Emmons D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD
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Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
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Posted 18 Oct 2003 3:40 pm
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I question the accuracy of that schedule of
production guitars based on serial numbers.
My Emmons has serial # 1399 and was manufactured,completed and delivered to my home by Ron Sr in July of 1969. Where does that trail lead ??. |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 18 Oct 2003 5:06 pm
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I heard the story that could be very well a truth.When Emmons comp. made a parts they throwed them on the shelfs and they wouldn`t pick them back up until they needed them ,so the guitar made in 1983 may have been assambled out of the parts made in 1978 or something like that.I`m by no means an expert on Emmons guitars but this story makes sence to me.
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 [This message was edited by Damir Besic on 18 October 2003 at 06:08 PM.] |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2003 7:25 pm
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| Quote: |
| Also, at a certain point, it is possible that the endplates were serialized ahead of guitar construction and put on a shelf, and then taken down and assembled into a guitar at a later date. Therefore, it is possible that some numbers may fall into one year earlier or later than shown on the chart. |
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Posted 19 Oct 2003 8:31 am
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That chart actually starts out wrong right off
the bat. The "D" after the serial # started
closer to '67. Nearly all the earlier years
used the invoice numbers without the D's after
the number. |
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Paul Warnik
From:
Illinois,USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2003 1:05 pm
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| My '66 bolt-on is #1019D |
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Charlie Moore
From:
Deville, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2003 3:32 pm
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| I have ser# 2457&2754 which is correct 78&79 model D-10's,so some must be correct,Charlie........... |
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Garry Vanderlinde
From:
CA
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Posted 19 Oct 2003 8:05 pm
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| I have a bolt-on D-10 serial# 2255. No D afterward. Tone pot is a '66, three rows of tuning screws at the end on the chrome endplate. Any one have an idea to the year. I don't see how it could be a '76. I bought it in the early '80's out here in Calif. and it was old then. [This message was edited by Garry Vanderlinde on 19 October 2003 at 09:06 PM.] |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Oct 2003 2:01 am
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Garry, your s/n has no "D" after it and, therefore, would be an invoice number. It is consistent with the range of invoice numbers from that period.
Jay, the list was transcribed from a copy that was hand written on Emmons letterhead and given to us by a friend who has owned more than ten PP Emmons. I still have that copy.
b0b has already noted the disclaimer. My understanding is that the end plates were serialized without being on a finished guitar and then they were not necessarily used in the correct order. Therefore, you could get an end plate serialized in '68 that was used in a different year. You will find that these anomalies are usually 1 year off; and they tend to occur toward the end of the yearly number sequence.
John Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars
www.SteelGuitar.com
[This message was edited by John Fabian on 20 October 2003 at 07:18 AM.] |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 20 Oct 2003 10:30 am
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| The SN on my push pull(D-10)is 6743. Anybody know when IT was built? |
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Garry Vanderlinde
From:
CA
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Posted 20 Oct 2003 5:33 pm
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| John, I'm a little confused. Did you mean my guitar is consistent with a '76 or a '66. And do you have any idea about the three rows of allens for pedal adjustments on the changer end plate? |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Oct 2003 2:24 am
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Garry,
'66 time fame.
Possibly for splits or due to finger replacement. Check with Herb Steiner or Dave Robbins. My 64 has 3 rows of holes and had the changer fingers replaced at the factory in 65 requiring a repositioning of one of the rows of holes. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 21 Oct 2003 2:49 am
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Gary
I personally have only seen two Emmons guitars with 3 rows of holes; Dave Robbins' #1264017 (I own 1264018 and it has 2 rows), and Marty Muse's 1965 guitar #2171.
I once owned #2184, a wraparound that I estimated to be made in late 1965, so your bolt-on being #2255 and the 66 code on your tone pot makes it a 1966 guitar to me.
Buddy explained to me once that the three hole configuration was an ill-advised attempt at a split tuning mechanism. I'm sure relatively few if any of these guitars still exist in their split-tuning form.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Dave Robbins
From:
Cottontown, Tnn. USA (deceased)
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Posted 21 Oct 2003 8:13 am
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"According to Ron Lashley Sr" in my conversation with him in 1990, there were actually only two push/pulls originally built by the factory that had the three row "split tuning" ability (again, as per Ron Lashley Sr, 1990). The one I have, 1264017, represents December of 1964, the 17th guitar ever built. It was Buddy's then Stu Basore's, then Jimmy Fox's, Joe Goldmark's and then a young man in California that I bought it from. My guitar is an original "red-belly" as well.
The later one was built for Weldon Myrick originally and currently owned by Marty Muse, however is not authentic due to changes to the body ,etc (however, I'll bet Marty is just as proud of it!).
The earliest guitars, like mine, were "dated" guitars, as opposed to either serial number or invoice number guitars. The numbers were both stamped on the end plates "and" an inside area of the body which would require disassembly to find, but a sure indication of authenticity, and pretty much reserved to the few '64 models built. They also used Stadler/Aldrich (sic) end plates. By '65 they were using a different means for identification. '64s are the original "wrap-around" design changer but differ slightly from '65 wrap arounds in that the '65 has an improved changer mounting system and solid enclosed mounting blocks. The '64s had open mounting blocks whereby the ends of the changer axle can be seen.
By the way, the "split tuning" capability of my guitar worked great! The only down side to it was the requirement of some extra springs in the system which created a smewhat "spongy" feel to the pedals. I used the system for a long time and never had any problem with it. It tuned up and worked great and was the envy of many a P/P player who couldn't split tune the way mine could. At one point I changed the pedal set up and opted to go with just the standard non split tuning set up. However, the capabilities are still there built into the guitar and I could have it "split tuning" again in a matter of minutes. I now play my LeGrande III and love it, so the ol' '64 waits in the case for those special times like when I play the The Grand Ol' Opry at the Ryman!
I am considering setting up the ol' '64 to once again "split tune" just for nostalgia sake. As I said, all the capabilties are still there...nothing has been altered or changed from it's split tuning design and just by re-adding a couple of springs and retuning, it would once agin be "split tuning!" 
Dave[This message was edited by Dave Robbins on 21 October 2003 at 09:19 AM.] |
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Garry Vanderlinde
From:
CA
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Posted 21 Oct 2003 7:38 pm
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| Thanks everyone for the valuable info. and helping me date my Emmons to a '66. I feel like I just won the lottery. Where else could you find such important info to a steel player and fan. |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 11:50 am
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| But what about #6743? Anybody got an idea when this one was built??? |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2003 11:57 am
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| Steve, I have number 6726 and mine was built in 83. Hope that helps.-Henry |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 23 Oct 2003 11:27 am
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| Thanks, Herb, Henry. My guitar sounds wonderful, and I was told it was an '81, but the numbers didn't jive with the Carter/Emmons chart. |
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Nick Reed
From:
Russellville, KY USA
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Posted 31 Oct 2003 3:06 pm
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My '66 bolt-on shows serial #2615(without the D) on the endcast. Anybody got an idea of when it was built and left the Emmons factory.
Nick |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 31 Oct 2003 7:35 pm
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| 1966? |
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Bob Knight
From:
Bowling Green KY
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Posted 31 Oct 2003 8:38 pm
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Nick,
If you are trying to pin it down to the second,minute,day,week,month,etc. It doesn't seem that they kept the records that precise.
You have it figured out to be a 1966, I think that's as close as you will come.  Just my take on it. |
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Dyke Corson
From:
Fairmount, IL USA
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Posted 31 Oct 2003 8:57 pm
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| How about this, I have a rosewood mica bolt on (sticker type decal) with NO SERIAL NUMBER! Anyone ever heard of this happening? |
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Bob Knight
From:
Bowling Green KY
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Posted 31 Oct 2003 9:01 pm
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| Yep! |
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