Steel Players- If I only had the evidence?

[Jonathan Slyker]

This post is hopefully not a complete regurgitation of what has already been wisely stated. I agree with just about everything. What the heck do I know anyhow? I’m a newbie and more of a fan than a player. But maybe that’s a useful perspective.

I said:

Those of us… involved in the jazz … scene need to keep our eyes and ears open for any possible opportunity to book one of the living … into a gig worthy of his stature. To put it concretely, when is Tommy White coming to Birdland or the Blue Note?”

Tommy White said:

"Jonathon, I've been invited to play Birdland with Bucky, John and Martin Pizzarelli through the years, especially after our New York sessions for Arbor records. Unfortunately, scheduling conflicts prevented it."

Mr. White, an honor to receive your direct response. Quite a loss for New York, New York that you didn’t make the gig(s). Problem is, if you had come, I wonder how I (or the rest of NYC metro) would have found out in advance?

Relating this to "If I only have the evidence," I'm not giving up just yet. OK, fine, no "non country “convention! The steel jazz magic that you experienced, back in the day, was of the moment,and cannot be scheduled. Me jonesing for a C6 convention or "alternate" convention was for only 1 reason- so I could hear more of the kind of music Paul Franklin is talking about.

Ways I, as a selfish person, might be able to hear a greater variety of C6/jazz:

Prominent posts re C6 shows in the SGF? Otherwise, bona fide players should (maybe prescreened by b0b) email to “all” (all SGF members) a heads-up about “I’m playing Washington D.C. in July,” etc. I’d rather have that sort of “marketing” than all the junk email I get.

A new/separate steel guitar forum topic "steel jazz?"

Somebody compiles a discography, stating whether still "in print," and steelers strive to buy the records wherever they may be?

SGF raises money to buy the licenses of the out of print records, re-releases the records, etc.

With the current availabilities of live C6, there's no wonder people on You Tube say things like "I've never heard steel played that way."

I did a mini-scientific study of how easy vs. hard it is for the average Joe to hear the “good stuff.”

I made a Pandora "radio station” using the name Buddy Emmons. On Pandora his name is spelled "Buddie." I listened for almost 2 hours, got 2 Buddy tune, compared to 35 tunes that weren't Buddy. Then I went to bed and stopped the “experiment,” so the ratio was probably even poorer than 2/35. Worse yet, the Pandora algorithm is supposed to generate artists/songs that are quite similar to the designated artist (Buddy Emmons). This did not happen. I can’t figure out why this happens, when there are a few more C6 jazz steelers with “in print” albums (see below re iTunes), even if not many. So, there were a few John Rauhouse pieces and the rest were almost all straight ahead jazz. On the bright side, a kudo for Buddy, being grouped musically with Coltrane, Lester Young, Sonny Rollins, Bud Powell, etc.

I entered the terms "steel guitar" and/or "pedal steel guitar" in an iTunes store search and targeted only “straight ahead jazz" or contemporary/multitonal/atonal jazz albums. The search yielded the following dozen or so C6 jazz steel solo albums (I excluded flat out Western Swing albums):

The number of C6/jazz albums per person: Buddy, 2 (we know that several Buddy albums are out of print.); Loessberg, 2; Hartley, 1; Cohen, 1; Boggs, 2; Remington, 1; Rauhouse, 3; Rey, 2; Jernigan, 1.

On iTunes, Buddy and Buddie are both used. Buddy and Buddie together have 5.

Then, searching iTunes for each of the following names produced very few hits: Buck Reid, 1; Steve Palousek, 0; Randy Beavers, 0; MIke Perlowin, 0; Russ Hicks with Barefoot Jerry, 0; Mike Smith, 0; Gary Hogue, 0; Julian Tharpe, 0; Curley Chalker, 0; Susan Alcorn, 2; Mike Perlowin, 0; Joaquin Murphey, 0.

I only used steeler’s name so if the steeler was on an album by a group, I will not have picked it up.

By the way, almost all of the jazz steel albums on iTunes have NO REVIEWS WHATSOEVER. You can post a review even if you don’t buy the album. You can hear samples of all the tunes and get excited about the album for free. I felt compelled to write a shameless, hysterical, frothing at the mouth review of Loessberg’s album. Better and more reviews means bigger sales. Support our own, I say.

I hope I have proved my point that there is almost no way for the average listener who seeks, or is receptive to, music of new and different genres to be exposed to the kind of steel music we’re talking about.

By the way, thanks, Mike Perlowin, for your gracious offer to tour the heartlands on a bus for a few months, performing "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun." If by chance you can’t get that moving, New York will be an amazing place for you to get noticed. Couldn’t you stick the written music in front of professional classical musicians out of the yellow pages and nail the pieces? There’s a big PSG community here who will give you room, board, a packed audience, etc.

Since almost nobody except critics, intellectuals, and musicians (not necessarily in that order) listen to jazz anyway, will any changes in market for steelers likely increase? Sadly, it seems the viewpoint is “no.” Live music is dead, or at least comatose.

Despite this, does everybody agree that they would like C6/jazz PSG music to gain a greater media and cultural presence? Seems like “no.” A few comments about PSG isolationism in this thread. If I never laid hands on a PSG, and had a few bucks and some job comfort/flexibility, I’d have attended ISGC every year since the beginning. ISGC is like Woodstock, Telluride, Tanglewood, Ravinia, Bonaroo, you name it, all rolled into a steel paradise. It’s like a private event that the world is deprived of. I don’t say that I want to be surrounded by non-musicians in a huge hall. But, man, there is some serious value in that ISGC. License the performances and sell ‘em, I say.

But would greater public activity in the PSG jazz arena foster even more growth and transformation in virtuoso players?

Will it finally help break down the “segregation” of PSG from “real jazz,” (see posts by Bud Angelotti, Clete Ritta) and break out of its “hillbilly” connotations, reputation, or stereotype? (Remember the thread in the last year or so- some famous alt-country artist proclaimed that Josh Grange singlehandedly wrested PSG from the grip of C & W!?)

Some like BE, TW, JL, PF, etc. have already broken down the wall. Give me more!!!!

In agreement with Neer and Perlowin, one last shout out: “Susan Alcorn, you’ve got a real set of ________” to go out there and zap the people. Reminds me of the story of the debut of Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring. I’m interested to know which 6 string guitarists you listen to.

I still think jazz needs A LOT MORE turf at ISGC, but I seem to be outvoted.

[Neal Yeagley]

I remember back in the late 1970's, two men on a stage at Craig Bakers Steel Guitar Jam. One was Doug Jernigan and the other I did not know. They had a "steel" off for jazz at that time. Well, they got into a song that was fast and jazzy and to my surprise, Doug threw his hands up in the air and said, "that is all I know". Well the other young man took this song and blew smoke from here to China and Doug just sat there and watched in amazement. That young man was Paul Franklin. To this day, I have never underestimated a steel player such as Paul whom that day mentioned that he was starving for work as steel was on its downside in Nashville. Now we look and listen to him pretty much on anything coming out of Nashville today on recordings. He is one of the nicest human beings you will ever meet and talk too. He also will be a "legend" when his time passes. He is the "new' Buddy Emmons of this era as the torch has been passed and in very good hands.

Yes Paul, Buddy could do whatever he wanted in the steel guitar world. For me, it started with Buddy Emmons when he was with Ernest Tubb. Then when Buddy Charleton came along, I believe he furthered the Country Jazz scene even moreso. When Big Jim Murphy and Curly Chalker was with Carl Smith or Hank Thompson, that was a special treat. To me, for a current player that anyone would like to hear that sounds more like Buddy Emmons is Mr. Steve Palousek. Wow, what can I say that has not already been said about this great steel player? He is a fine man to talk to also.

Players like Sid Hudson, Tommy White, Mike Cass, Jeff Demaio(listen to his band, Gunsmoke) all carry the Emmons sound among many others I am sure just like Johnny Cox carries the sound of Curly Chalker and does it with ease, I am amazed. Another fine steel player by the name of Gary Lee Gimble, I am just waiting for him to break out on the professional scene, he deserves a chance and I think he will do just fine. That is the problem today, not enough exposure for some of these unknowns.

Yes, Buddy has done more for steel guitar, whether it is country, pop, western swing, jazz, big band, the man has got the talent without a doubt. He is the best at what he does and without him, steel guitar would not be what it is today, plain and simple.

Who will be the next one in line to carry the torch? I am sure there is someone out there in his early teens that we have no idea about and when he breaks on the steel guitar scene, we will embrace him with open arms and music to our ears. I cannot wait for that moment.

Paul, right now in my opinion, you and Tommy White are holding that torch. You are both incredible players in your own right and different styles. but the most important thing is that you are both gentlemen and represent the steel guitar world very well. You are the Ambassadors of Steel Guitar as far as I am concerned. I should add that Doug Jernigan should be included in that category also not too mention other players also.

Please, please everyone, listen and enjoy all types of music of the pedal steel guitar. I guarantee while listening to any song, you will say, I heard Buddy Emmons play that lick, note, or chord work at any given time.

Buddy, if you are reading this, thank you for everything you have done for us steel guitar fans. You will be remembered forever! Peace be with you and the best of health also! Neal

[Dickie Whitley]

Before I get slammed for asking this, I'm not trying to disrespect any of the previous posters in any way, shape, or form. I'm just asking why, ok?

According to the information (from Statista.com) I have (in millions of units sold, not dollars), of album sales in 2011:

Rock (but of course) 105.6
R&B 55.44
Alternative 55.03
Country 42.92 (and yes I know the opinions of country these days)

Jazz 11.08 (10th on this particular list)

I guess my point is it seems Jazz would be taking us even further down the "commercial" selling point. Also I know the large majority of the sales were "singers" and not "instrumentalist". It would seem to me if we want to continue to make the steel a "money maker", we would want to punch it into the upper echelons of Alternative, R&B, and Rock. I'm sure there are some that are trying to do this. Just asking the question.

Thoughts, opinions, others?

[Niels Andrews]

I hope this conversation is not over!

[Dickie Whitley]

Just a follow up for 2013 based on info from the same source (Statista.com):

Rock 34.8%
R&B 17.5%
Alternative 17.4%
Country 13.8%
.
.
.
Jazz 2.3%

So my question remains, other than personal preference, Jazz would not seem to be the money maker or the way to expose the PSG to the most people. Back to my silence.

[Donny Hinson]

I think "boxes" are things that others create, and I don't feel they are germane except to those listeners. In other words, I don't feel a player can player can "play outside his own box", he can only play "outside the box" (or beyond the limits) of what others might expect. There are undoubtedly some players who have a very narrow field of view when it comes to steel guitar music, as well as music in general. You hear them, occasionally, making comments like..."If it doesn't have steel guitar in it, it ain't worth listening to". But stop and think for a moment - what would Buddy's playing have been like if he had had that attitude? Quite likely, there would have been no "Steel Guitar Jazz", and no "Blue Jade" either, and his playing in "Way To Survive" might have sounded more like the trills of Johnny Siebert.

In order for the instrument to really grow and expand, it will have to not only venture into new areas of technique, sound, and style, but also into other forms of music. Jazz and blues are just stepping stones to widening the instruments appeal.

[Dickie Whitley]

...but that's exactly my point Donny, I'm not against widening the appeal of PSG, quiet the opposite. I'm just saying why aren't we putting more emphasis in the areas that sell the most music? Jazz is low on the totem pole so to speak, why aren't we trying to punch into the areas that are the major sellers? That's all I'm asking, and I'm sure there are some who are trying.

[Jake Hoffman]

What an interesting thread. Last week, I played a solo "lounge" gig at an upscale hotel in Boise, Idaho (yes, there are several!). I played everything from Faded Love to Canadian Sunset. Folks were fascinated. "What is this thing?", they asked. But it did not matter. They loved it's voice. We have in our hands an incredible musical instrument that has no boundaries. As Lloyd Green once told me, "Keep on Steelin'".

Jake

[Tony Prior]

Very interesting read, long too! Maybe somehone ( bob) should publish it in a book form...

I am fascinated by the diverse replies of which each one matters. Jazz vs rock has always been one of them at odds deals.

Probably the very first Steel player I ever heard was in Norwalk Ct late 60's and sadly I can't remeber his name but he was playing a D10 Sho Bud in a kinda Country band but he played everything on this wild tuning which I came to learn was C6th. This guy was out of Nashville and I was just blown away by what he was playing..it was Jazz, no Blues ..but he was in a Country band...

Point here is , as many use the "out of the box" phrase the actuality is the music is not really out of the box, it might be for them, the listener, but it is not actually out of the box for the musician. He or she is playing whats in their head and what they love and if you say to them, man you are playing out of the box they would look at you and say , what are you talking about, I'm playing my Instrument...

If we as musicians, regardless of skill level have an appreciation for different music or perhaps come from a different place musically I suspect we try to add elements of that musical reference each time we play, I know I do...If we only listen to country and have only listened to country we may very well think everything else is out of the box !

When the NE Pedal Steel Association brought Buddy up to NY for a show in the early 70's..it was like the earth stopped rotating for a couple of hours...the mold was made and it was now obvious...argue to your last breath that this is NOT an instrument relegated to just Country music. But, if the new wave of YouTube listeners have no reference , which many don't, then it is now considered "Out of the Box"...of course we all know it's been out of the box for over 50 years now !

There are so many players with so many diverse opinions about what good music is, what real music is, etc...but the fact of the matter is, at least in my mind is , if you are only enjoying or appreciating one specific style of music, or only attempting to learn and play one style of music , thats not a bad thing but it is limiting.

For years I have heard people tell me jazz is too hard to play and understand ...so they stay away from it. In my limited wisdom I usually reply wth something like , " so is French and Spanish, but people learn it and speak it everyday " . Me I am not really a Jazz player but I am a great Jazz listener and choose to spend my musical time playing other types of music and Instruments which I also love....My intent, whether successful or not is to take pieces of all the music I love and blend it.

I don't consider that out of the box, I actually see it as I am playing IN my box . The truth is all I am doing is reflecting back on my Mel Bay book of orchestral chords which I have been carrying around since 1965 .

By the way that guy in Norwalk ct told me about Chalker and when I went to Nashville not long after that I was trying to find him, but that didn't pan out so well but I was up in the Ally and got to hear other greats live and in action...Gene O'Niell for one..I did come home with a bunch of LP's of which Chalkers , Big Steel guitar ,was on my record player for a few months straight..along with the Black Album...I didn't actually start playing Country until after that time...I would do it the same way today if I had to do it all over again..

thats all I got

t

[Donny Hinson]

I'm just saying why aren't we putting more emphasis in the areas that sell the most music? Jazz is low on the totem pole so to speak, why aren't we trying to punch into the areas that are the major sellers? That's all I'm asking...

Why? Well, I'd guess that because first, we have to get away from the country stereotype. Face it, devotees of most any other musical genre simply refuse to take country anything seriously; that "hick/hillbilly" image we inherited back in the '50s has been passed on, and is truly hard to overcome.

[Tony Prior]

We don't need more emphasis on a genre of music such as country, my take is we are killing that beyond death. We need a bit more exposure of different styles that players can expose WHILE playing.

Our founding masters may play country as a career but they are much much more than that, they all have a love and appreciation for music which far exceeds anything that is heard on an AM radio

[Joe Casey]

Tony your last line is so true. No one should limit their own skills if they have the talent to exceed beyond others.

[Johan Jansen]

Just play out of your heart, don't think in boxes....
JJ

[Bill L. Wilson]

Am I wrong, to just like GOOD OL' COUNTRY PEDAL STEEL? My 3chord Hillbilly Head, just can't grasp heavy jazz chords, and what sounds like off key harmonies. Some of the links ya'll have posted, sounds like instruments have been passed out to people on the street. And they haven't a clue as to what the instrument is, let alone how it's played. I know you fellas that get into jazz, really enjoy it, but I get bored with it real fast. Eddy Van Halen, is a great rock guitarist, but my taste is more toward Luther Perkins. I've only got a few yrs left, so I'll stay in THE BOX.

[Ken Byng]

Am I wrong, to just like GOOD OL' COUNTRY PEDAL STEEL? My 3chord Hillbilly Head, just can't grasp heavy jazz chords, and what sounds like off key harmonies. Some of the links ya'll have posted, sounds like instruments have been passed out to people on the street. And they haven't a clue as to what the instrument is, let alone how it's played. I know you fellas that get into jazz, really enjoy it, but I get bored with it real fast. Eddy Van Halen, is a great rock guitarist, but my taste is more toward Luther Perkins. I've only got a few yrs left, so I'll stay in THE BOX.

[Johan Jansen]

Hope the box is big enough

[Bill L. Wilson]

Actually, I think The Box is way bigger than my ability to figure out what all is in it. My guitar playing is the same, when I learned how to Boogie Woogie, I was in Hog Heaven, and stayed there. I really do Love the Nashville Cats, who are the best musicians on the planet. But, I learned yrs ago, that I will never be in their league, no matter how much seat time, I put in. On the other hand, I'm busy pickin' every weekend, w/a country rock band, and cowboys, oil field trash, and regular folks seem to like my pickin'. They don't have a clue that I'm stuck in THE BOX.

[Bo Legg]

Well if you are trying to play out of the box and go with the statistical best as your choice of Steel Guitar Genre then perhaps you should consider this statistic.
Steel guitar rating as a career choice doesn't even rate high enough to make the list.
If you are statistical goal oriented you need to climb out of the Steel guitar box.