What's the difference between Rick eras?

David T · Post by **David T** » 16 Nov 2000 8:20 pm

What is the difference between the various B series Rickenbachers? I have heard that prewars are the way to go. How can you tell a prewar from a later one? Why do some have white bakalite covers and others have the plated covers? Are the 7 strings a lot more rare than the 6's? Or are they just more desirable? Why do some have covers over the peg heads and others don't? Is there a difference between the pickups they put in them relative to different eras? As you can see I am an ignoramous when it comes to these guitars (ask me about dobros). I have had a few lap steels and now am interested in trying out a Rick. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! - Dave

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 17 Nov 2000 7:38 am

B-models where introduced in the mid 1930's.
All pre-war models have all of the following characteristics:
<ul>[*]1-1/2" wide pick-up plates/No frame around the pick-up.
[*]Bridge integrated in the body molding.
[*]Five cover plates are chrome plated, not white nor celluloid.
[*]No cover over key head.
[*]Frets are not out lined by recessed white lines.
[*]1 or 2 controls: If two, they're located on opposite plates, not both on the treble side plate.
[*]String through the body.
[*]Small "Rickenbacher Electro (RF) Los Angeles" logo on key head (Notice the spelling: it's Rickenbacher).[/list]

7 string models are rarer than 6 string. 7 string models are built out of a 6 string body and neck, Thus the string spacing on 7 string models is narrower, which makes slants more difficult. Rickenbacker has even used 6 string necks for some of their 8 string model, which are really "no-slanters" (IMNSHO).

In later years (from 1940 up), war time material shortages as well as economical considerations may have forced Rickenbacher to painting the 5 cover plates.
Also the formula of the bakelite was changed as the early one was so brittle that bodies would pop, chip and/or break during the manufacturing process.
Recessed white fret outlines where added to these "new generation" necks.
Later again a smaller pick-up was introduced (1-1/4" wide) mounted with a surrounding metal frame. This frame came into the way or the originally integrated bridge, so bridges where now a separate "screw-on" part.
Probably in order to reduce the risk of body breakage, Rickenbacker also quit the string-thru attach design and introduced a plated metal tail piece (much like on semi-acoustic guitars or Dobro's). You also have to understand that bakelite is a very hard and abrasive to machine material, requiring tool to be re-sharpened very, very often.

I am in the process of collecting digital photos of B and A series Rickenbacher lap steels and all information (catalog copies) possible. All this to eventually be published on a web site. If you or anybody have such information, I would welcome you to e-mail it to me. Thanks! [email]jaydee@bellsouth.net?subject=SG-Forum/Non Pedal/Rickenbacher Timeline[/email]

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The future belongs to culture. Ricks are culture! But are they the future???

jaydee@bellsouth.net
>[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 17 November 2000 at 07:49 AM.]

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 17 Nov 2000 1:16 pm

You are indeed the man, J-D.

Let me know if you need any photos, general or specific, of a Silver Hawaiian or a later model Panda. I'll be happy to shoot anything upon your direction, Mr. DeMille.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 17 Nov 2000 1:49 pm

Folks I wish to make a comment.

I have known JD Sauser for several years now. I came to his defense once on this forum and we made friends.

Several weeks ago, I had the pleasure of spending considerable time with him and his lovely wife Gabriela in Joliet for the Hawaiian steel guitar show.

I am in awe of this brilliant young man. J D is the kind of person who takes on anything with the zest and zeal of a professional sponge.

His knowledge and intelligence far exceeds his age. His ability to find and articulate technical things is incredible to say the least.

You can take to the bank what he tells you. I cannot begin tell you how proud I am of him and how much I love this young man.

Bravo JD Sauser. God bless you and your precious family,

carl

Ian McLatchie · Post by **Ian McLatchie** » 17 Nov 2000 3:14 pm

David: All Model B's are excellent instruments, and a bakelite of any era is worth owning if the price is right. There's no question, though, that in general, with Rickenbackers, early is better. The pre-war pickups sound markedly better than the narrow post-war version, and the denser pre-war bakelite produces a fatter, mellower tone. The string-through design of the earlier instruments gives better sustain than the tailpiece on the post-war instruments, and the tailpiece also has an annoying tendency to swallow the ball end of strings.
The later post-war instruments in particular have a much harsher, treble-heavy tone. The pre-wars are considerably more money, but worth holding out for.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 17 Nov 2000 7:23 pm

Carl, as always, you have a way of saying things that is really touching. I can't do that well, but let me say this:

If there's really anything smart I think I've ever done, it is to hang around people like you Carl, our mutual friend Wayne Tanner, Maurice Anderson and others... people which gave me the opportunity to learn a lot, as most of these people, who I am now proud to call my Friends, have a lifetime of knowledge to offer and have been so generous to share much of it with me, for which I will be eternally thankful.

Thank you Carl and also thanks to Jon for your nice comments. What else can I say... Have nice weekend! ... J-D.

BTW Carl, Gabriela says "Hi"! Again! I think she likes you

.

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 18 Nov 2000 2:40 am

Hi J.D.!

Any info on Bronson brand lap steels?They were made by Rickenbacher,right?

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Olli Haavisto
Polar steeler
Finland

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 18 Nov 2000 5:32 am

Re: Bronson steels.

Elderly Instruments currently has a Bronson Melody King Model 52 for sale, $800.
http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/185U-31.htm

I visited Elderly two weeks ago and played every steel they had in the store. A number of Fenders, a few Gibsons etc. I kept gravitating back to the Bronson. It had the mellowest, most complex tone out of the entire lot. Didn't buy it though, my budget that day allowed for 3 thumbpicks and a few CD's.

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Page

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 18 Nov 2000 7:36 am

Olli! Hi.
Well, I knew that there was a "Bronson" version of the BD6 model, and the one Gerald Ross just pointed out was the first one I had seen (and downloaded the pictures).
I think that it is overpriced, as currently most steels at Elderly. I know of 2 pre-war B6 available around this price (which I am still trying to talk down a little

).
Technically it's about the least desirable B-model (except for the apparent rarity of the "Bronson", basically a brown bakelite BD6): Small pick-up, tail piece and then a questionable bakelite formula...
I don't know what the story behind the "Bronson"-name is either.

Input is as always welcome. [email]jaydee@bellsouth.net?subject=SG-Forum/Non Pedal/Bronson BD6[/email]
[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 18 November 2000 at 07:38 AM.]

John Tipka · Post by **John Tipka** » 18 Nov 2000 8:18 pm

JD,
George A. Bronson was the half brother of Harry G. Stanley, the owner of The O`ahu Publishing Company. Bronson was a fine steel player in his own right who ran a successful publishing and instruction business from the Kerr Building in Detroit, Michigan in the 1930's and `40s.

About 1927 Bronson and Stanley worked together establishing Honolulu Conservatories of Music in Michigan and Cleveland Ohio, but sometime around 1930 or `31 had a falling out and went their own ways. Bronson stayed in Michigan and operated his own business. Stanley stayed in Cleveland and formed O`ahu. And, of course, O`ahu came to be the most successful of all the guitar schools at the time. (Stanley was my neighbor when I was a youngster growing up and had arranged for one of his instructors, Alex Hoapili, to be my teacher. Alex was also Leonard Zinn's teacher).

George Bronson like Harry Stanley marketed products made by others under their own brand names. Whether or not the instruments were made by Harmony, Kay, National Valco, or Rickenbacher, they were sold under Bronson or O`ahu brand names and logos, and generally looked and sounded identical to guitars sold under the source manufacturer's name. They usually bought off the end of the manufacturer's run and rarely had any of their own unique designs. The O`ahu Iolana is probably the only exception.

The Bronson BD6 was in fact made by Rickenbacher for Bronson to Bronson specifications. Minor changes were made in the guitar for both Bronson's and Rickenbacher's marketing purposes. As licensed, the guitar needed to be clearly identified as a Bronson of Rickenbacher manufacture but not a Rickenbacher made Rickenbacher.

John

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 18 Nov 2000 9:56 pm

Cool John. I'm'a gunn'a save this!
Any word if they made any pre-war models too?

... J-D.

David T · Post by **David T** » 19 Nov 2000 9:34 am

You guys are absolutely awesome. J.D., Ian and everyone, thank you for the information. I have been watching ebay and have been surprised by how many Rick B's have been available and the wide range of prices they are going for. I saw a 7 string go for $1250 and a 6 for $515. In any case, thanks for clearing up the differences between them all. Check out the 8 string that is listed right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=500585250 Thanks again. - David Tanner, MN