help with Sho-Bud Mechanism

Harold Jack Baker · Post by **Harold Jack Baker** » 20 Sep 2003 9:05 am

I have a Sho-Bud Pro and I'm having trouble repairing the action. I need someone to explain how it's really supposed to work. I have part of it worked out but it's probably only the easy part. Texas Jack Baker Sho-Bud 2 X 4

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Texas Jack

Tom Callahan · Post by **Tom Callahan** » 20 Sep 2003 10:55 am

You might want to search out the e-mail address for Leon Roberts. He is a member and he is really big time into refurbishing Sho Buds and can probably help you.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 21 Sep 2003 12:14 am

Harold; I believe I can help you...but you will have to be more specific....as there were sooo many different mechanisms in the Shobuds through the years.
First off; you say Shobud Pro?? So Pro-what?? >Professional? or Pro I or Pro II or Pro III?? and so on.
What are you wanting to achieve with the action?? softer? stiffer? less slack? More slack? More throw or less throw? or it's not going to pitch and/or coming back>??
So those are just starters on some questions I have to help you??
You can certainly e-mail me if you like or call...and I can help you understand what system you have and how it works and how you can make it work for you better.
Ricky Davis
512-694-3139

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 21 Sep 2003 9:55 am

Ok Jack I'm glad you wrote.

Yes indeed the ShoBud Professional is a pedal steel unlike anything modern.
What you have is called a "Rack and Barrel" system.

The pedals or knee levers when enguaged; move a rack...that pulls a rod or rods for that certain string(s).
On the right end plate; you have what are called metal tuners that are "Affixed" to the end of the rod....meaning when you stick your allen wrench in there to fine tune the pedal or knee lever change;> you are infact turning the rod....and that will tune the barrel at the other(left) end of that rod.
You have to enguage the pedal or knee lever before you can tune the barrel because that pushes the rack into that barrel.
The barrel tuner at the left end of the rod..; has two sections to it.
The back end section which is the longer part of that barrel...>is affixed to the rod by that small allen screw.....>so that it turns when you turn the rod with the metal tuner at the right end..
and the other section of that barrel which is the small part at the other end of the spring on that barrel; will turn when the barrel is into the rack and it will adjust the length of the spring in that barrel....and pretty much tell it how far that note goes.....>the shorter the barrel spring....>the shorter the distance to the note and visa versa.
Now some problems that can incure.
That barrel has to have a small piece of that spring sticking out of that small end of the barrel; so when the rack is engauged into it...the barrel with catch, when turning/tuning the rod...
Also if the metal tuner at the other end is not affixed to the rod real well....>the actual metal tuner will turn and not turn the rod real well.
If you enguage the pedal and/or knee lever; and the rack does not go into the barrel....>you need to move the barrel closer.....or make the distance of that rack go further by adjusting the screw that stops that pedal or knee lever...>called the stop screw.

Ok that is the basic explaination and should get you started on how this baby works......there is More...ha...
I restore old shobuds and all kinds of shobuds and Marlen Steel guitars for guys all over the world.....>and you can see many of them that I did in the "House of Wood" at www.mightyfinemusic.com
I know the mechanics of All shobuds and all Marlens....and can help you understand even some finer points if you need...
Just ask.
Ricky

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 21 Sep 2003 10:22 am

A tip of carl's hat to Ricky Davis. One of the best explanations I have ever heard.

Thank you Ricky,

carl

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 21 Sep 2003 10:32 am

Thanks Carl; I'm humbled by your compliments.
It's easy to explain it now....because over the years of having hundreds of those parts in my hands and looking at them and say: "Now what in the World do these thingys Do"????ha...

Ricky

Leon Roberts · Post by **Leon Roberts** » 21 Sep 2003 12:32 pm

Harold, Ricky Davis is an authority on “Stock” Sho-Buds. I would be hard pressed to find fault with anything he has posted on this or the “Minor League” forum.

The only thing Ricky and I disagree on is the raise helper springs. He says “Take them off” and I say “leave them on”. This difference is of little consequence however.

After playing Kevin Ryan’s Franklin in about 1983, I started a gradual effort to make my Sho-Buds plays as effortlessly as that Franklin. After extensive modifications, I’m completely satisfied with my guitars today. So much that I will so put my newly acquired ZumSteel up for sale. The ZumSteel is far superior to the stock Sho-Bud. However, it does nothing my modified Sho-Buds can’t do. There is some young player out there that would love the ZumSteel. My two Sho-Buds just seem to fit like an old glove. I can understand why Lloyd Green is still playing his LDG. Lloyd and I both play Sho-Buds but that is as far as the similarity goes.
Leon

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 21 Sep 2003 3:53 pm

Ricky Davis is to be commended for his constant help of steel players here on the forum. He is a tremendous asset to the steel guitar community as well as a great player. Where else could you go to get this kind of detailed information so conveniently. This is a great forum. Bravo Ricky.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 21 Sep 2003 4:03 pm

Leon,

This is probably the ONLY thing I would be different than Ricky. I have the utmost respect and admiration for this monster player.

But I love helper springs. My first and only guitar to use them is the Excel U-12. And they are a dream when adjusted properly. In addition Mitsuo makes their adjustment easy since one can adjust them from the right end of the guitar just above the tuner compartment.

I have several places where I have some stiff pulls, eg, LKL2 which is raising two strings a tone and a half; along with lowering string 2 a half a tone. Without the helper springs (on the two raises) this knee lever would just be too stiff for me. So I love having them..

carl

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 21 Sep 2003 9:21 pm

Wow guys; I am red-faced over here...ha...Ya'll are tooo kind.
Leon....I agree with you pal....yes at one time I did say Get'um outta there...but I dissagree with myself now..ha
I think these helper springs on the older shobuds...didn't really do much at all to help the raises..inthat..they were just too flimsy..ha.....but if like Carl said..you are gunna raise something that extream and for some that don't like a stiff knee....>a raise/helper spring like he explained is super cool. But in the same breath...>if there is absolutely NO friction(dirt;bent rods; leaning fingers and just not a spec anywhere)..All raises and lowers can be as smooth as you would ever want..wheather there's helper springs on the raises or not...and more than likey; they might hender the movement of those fingers(now I'm talking the old single raise/single lower and double raise/single lower fingers)>because of their pivot positions.
And I had nothing but troubles with trying to lower 6th strings a whole tone with those on there(and some others) as when the lower part of the finger starts to lower...it's normal for the raise part to budge(pivots are positioned that way)..and when it does budge..that little flimsy spring will keep it going just that little bit...to hinder that lower..
I can lower a wound 6th string on any Shobud(well almost any..ha)..But the lower spring has to be of the perfect setting of tension...and NO raise spring..and it has to be a .020 wound...and can split on another raise for that puller.
I also found..a henderance problem with the raise spring...when raising that 1st string a whole tone..
But all and all...I leave them on there..ha...mainly as the ground conductor back to the changer...ah..ha..
I'm sorry I get sooo long winded on this stuff...but I LOVE IT...It just makes me Smile to hear guys getting these old Classics back in Shape and back on Stage..where they should be...and that is my quest and ONLY quest.
Ricky
[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 21 September 2003 at 10:26 PM.]

Leon Roberts · Post by **Leon Roberts** » 22 Sep 2003 4:59 am

Ricky, The ZumSteel I recently purchased, gave me some new insight on raise helper springs. Bruce has designed his raise helper spring’s feature so that they would not interfere with the lowering feature. The spring attaches to the raise finger instead of the top part of the changer like a Sho-Bud. Also, the Zum raise springs are adjustable. I have plans to incorporate these features on my two Sho- Buds, since they both have the later type Triple raise/ Double lower changers. I will need to re-configure the RKR knee lever to make room for the adjustment feature on the helper springs. I have this all worked out on paper and will start machining the parts soon.
My best to you and keep up the good work on the old Sho-Buds.
Leon

Harold Jack Baker · Post by **Harold Jack Baker** » 22 Sep 2003 6:41 am

I do not doubt that you fellows are really knowledgeable. My problem is I don't have the same degree of understanding on all this. The only parts I'm sure of are the nut, rod, and now barrell. Now I understand that the nut at the end of the rod that accepts an allen wrench is supposed to turn the rod and lenghen or shorten the brass barrell when the knee or pedal is engaged. The far end of the barrell is stationary and the close end determines the distance the string travels. Is this correct

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Texas Jack

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 22 Sep 2003 10:06 am

That is Correct Jack....>you got it man.

Leon; Bruce is a wonderful designer...and that sounds great.
And yes the ShoBud fingers from the first design triple raise/double lower and to the super pro finger design...."They NEED helper springs on the raises"....Absolutely agree...
Ricky

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 22 Sep 2003 10:28 am

Again:
The long part of the barrel, the one towards the end of the rod, is fixed to the rod with an allen screw so it will turn along whenever the rod is turned with the tuning screw on the endplate (with the allen wrench).
The short part that faces the rack, which is connected to the long part with a thread so it can screw in and out (the spring is to keep it in place), is normally loose on the rod. When a pedal or knee lever is engaged, the rack moves towards the barrel and catches the short part, holding it in place so it can no longer turn. The closer it is to the rack, the sooner the raise or lower will start and the longer the note will be.
By turning the tuning screw at the endplate with your allen wrench, you determine the distance between the two parts. Long distance means, the short part is closer to the rack so the rack will catch on sooner and the travel that can be utilized for the raise or lower will be longer. Of course, the final travel is determined by the pedal stops.
Short distance means, the short part of the barrell gets closer to the long part and further away from the rack, so the rack will "run empty" for a bit before it catches on thus making for a smaller possible amount of raise/lower.
When tuning the pedal changes, if you turn clockwise, the distance will be lenghtened, that´s when you tune "up". Turning counterclockwise shortens the distance when you tune "down".
Two problems that might occur:
When you tune "down" (counterclockwise) there may come a point when the spring gets compressed so the whole thing is stuck and the allen screw at the endplate will loosen as you turn it and pop out. (Good luck finding it) In that case, you will have to open the set screw on the long part of the barrel so you can slide the rod out to put the tuning screw back on again, and then put everything back into place.
On the other hand, when you tune up (clockwise) there may come a point when the spring just reaches its end and can´t open up anymore. (If the rod is a bit short, it might fall off the end of the rod as well) This is likely to happen when you have to frequently re-tune a certain change. Again, loosen the set screw on the long barrel, hold it in place with your thumb or finger, and turn the short end so that the distance becomes shorter again, so you will again have some room to work with.
This system will only get so far. When the barrel can´t take anymore, you may have to increase the pedal travel.
It is a good idea to set them up so that the distance is neither too short nor too long. However, if this happens frequently on a given barrel, it might indicate that it is worn out and needs to be replaced.
Hope this makes sense,

Joe H.

>[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 22 September 2003 at 09:33 PM.]

Harold Jack Baker · Post by **Harold Jack Baker** » 22 Sep 2003 11:33 am

Hey Joe; Thanks for the details. It's been a great enlightenment for me. I totally didn't understand how the whole system worked. Actually it's quite challenging. The only thing I've yet to understand is how to make the tunning nut at the end of the rod stationary so it doesn't just unscrew from the rod instead of turn the rod. Texas Jack

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Texas Jack

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 22 Sep 2003 8:40 pm

You´re very welcome, Jack. The tuning nut won´t unscrew under normal conditions. The only time that happens, as I said, when you tune down and the small part of the barrel gets screwed all the way into the long part, and the spring is compressed so the two parts become as one so when the rack presses against it, the whole unit is held tight and the tuning nut will loosen as you turn the allen wrench to the left.

Regards, Joe