Newbie with Sho Bud questions

Jim Wegner · Post by **Jim Wegner** » 25 Dec 2013 8:44 am

Forum-I've been playing an 8-string non-pedal Remington steel for 4-years and now want to move into pedal steel. As luck would have it, my son was visiting a music store and lo and behold on the floor was a Sho Bud Professional D-10 8 and 2. I plan on seeing it with my son in the next couple of days but, never having even touched a pedal steel, really don't know what to look for or watch-out for. They want $1700 for it but the sales person told my son that there was "flexibility" in the price. REALLY need some advice here before my heart takes over my wallet with the possibility of buyer's remorse setting in later. What should I look for, check, etc. and what (approximately) would be a fair price. ANY AND ALL comments would be of EXTREME value! From watching this forum for years, you guys know your stuff. Thanks.
---Jim Wegner

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 25 Dec 2013 9:16 am

If it were me, the first thing I would do is check it over cosmetically. Then I would look at the undercarriage to see if it is rusty or discolored with nicotine. Granted, the undercarriage can be cleaned up, but it would have an effect on what I would pay for it. Then I would sit down at it, tune it up if needed, and play it for a while. Is it comfortable to sit at and play. You say that you have been playing lap steel for a while, so you have some experience. Check to see how the pedals and knee levers work. Are they real hard to work. Again, that can be adjusted. When you play a string that is activated by a pedal/lever, does it come back in tune? Again, maybe just an adjustment. Since most things can be fixed, I would really give the visual inspection equal weight with the other things. Make sure there are no cracks in the wood. Look for any obvious damage. And, it's probably a rack and barrel undercarriage. It will be a little noisy when you use the pedals/levers. This is pretty normal.

That's how I would go about checking it out. Others will offer more or different things. Sho~Buds are awesome guitars.

Wayne Quinn · Post by **Wayne Quinn** » 25 Dec 2013 9:27 am

Jim ,your a lucky guy if you can get to try her out. as for the price i don't think that.s a bad price at all if the guitar is not beat right out. and if all your raises are raising to proper pitch and returning to proper pitch as same for your lowers i would not be scared to buy her.[this is my opinion] . and you might get them down a hundred or so to boot. SHO-BUD where an awesome guitar I had a few my self . and played a few i didn't own. and i loved every one of them i still have my 79 L.D.G . iam sure there will be a few of the real SHO- BUD guys on the forum here with more experience than me will help you out to. and Richard makes some good points to. good luck

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 25 Dec 2013 9:33 am

If you look at the Forum For Sales, the price looks good, IF it's in good shape. If the cosmetics or the mechanics are rough, then start subtracting.
Richard's suggestions are all good, the pedals should move smoothly, posing resistance is fine, but it should be even.
The pedals should, for instance, go from a reliable open B (fifth and tenth on the front neck) to a reliable C#, et c.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 25 Dec 2013 10:11 am

flexibility in price means i'd offer them $1200..no more. it could be worth $1000-$2000, but start real low. i sold my old professional dirt cheap...but it served me well for 10 years of heavy honky tonk use and abuse. they're a great steel for your first 'pedal' steel. they look good, sound good, and are easy to work on. just about every one will have a fine line crack on the right and left front where the top joins the front...from the top of the endplate inward a few inches. some people have started to freak out about that lately, but mine was always like that with no problem. (however it's a good bargaining point to get the price down)

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 25 Dec 2013 10:12 am

Jim...The best solution would be to bring an experienced player with you to look it over if one is available...If not,this may sound odd, but I have always found the condition of the case to be a good starting point. A case that shows extensive wear or damage normally indicates that the guitar has been gigged or toured heavily (loading in out of vehicles takes its toll on cases as well as the instruments that they contain)which may in turn indicate more than average wear on the changer and other vital parts. FYI: The original cases were normally covered in black vinyl, lined in red cloth, and featured a separate compartment on the inside end intended for volume pedal storage, if not, most likely a replacement unit. Keep in mind, you are considering purchasing an instrument that is approximately forty years old so some wear is to be expected, but an older guitar can become a money pit if replacement parts are immediately needed. As for price, having only two knee levers available, you will most likely want to add at least two more sometime in the future which may run in the neighborhood of $350.00 to $400.00 plus labor to install, bringing your overall investment to over $2000.00 which is on the high end of the scale for a 'Professional' model in average condition. Personally,I would offer no more than $1500.00 if considering the purchase..JMO!

Jim Wegner · Post by **Jim Wegner** » 25 Dec 2013 10:50 am

Wow! Thanks for all the good advice and keep it coming especially after you see the pics below. My son took pics of the Bud and just got done getting them into my computer to show you guys. No pics of the undercarriage, unfortunately. Take a look and keep commenting. I think that my son and I will probably take a look at this on Friday. My son doesn't play steel but has played guitar for many years for what that's worth. It is unique that this Sho Bud is in South Dakota. I only know of about 10 other steel players (some pedal, some non-pedal) in the entire state. Music stores up here tend to give you the "deer in the headlights look" when you walk in and ask for steel guitar items. Anyway, enough rambling. Take a look and I'd appreciate your 2-cents worth.
--Jim

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 25 Dec 2013 11:55 am

I for one, I like, I like and I like. If the outward looks the clean and the rest of the hardware looks that good , you have something to work with. I don't see the price as being out of touch. Consider a D-10, 2 necks and that is 750.00 x 2 @ 1500.00 I would do this , if there are no missing parts underneath. There has been and still are a lot of music being played with these. I have 3 Steels and I always keep going back to my Bud . JMHO

Dave O'Brien · Post by **Dave O'Brien** » 25 Dec 2013 11:59 am

Pretty yes, but IMHO not a lot of players want them anymore, especially if they are touring or gigging a lot. Heavy, a little clunky, a little tempermental. I sold and played them for years. I'd say offer $ 1200 tops! I paid $ 700 for mine that I bought back after 30+ years, but it needed one pickup.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 25 Dec 2013 1:35 pm

looks good! as dave and i said...start the offering at 1200...

tell the store guy there are lots of these around(cause there used to be)

being your first pedalsteel you won't need more knee levers yet. the guy that said 200 apiece for levers is way off base..old sho bud parts are pretty clunky...anyone asking that kind of monney is ripping you off! (yes, you heard me!)

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 25 Dec 2013 1:39 pm

I agree w/ a price $1200 tops, because it only has 2 knee levers.

You're probably going to need to add 2 more. I think James Moreland or Michael Yahl make custom KL kits. I'd imagine they'd cost $150-200 each. So add $300 -$400 to your investment

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 25 Dec 2013 2:19 pm

not that you'd need them yet, but i'd ask around for used lever/rack parts first. someone's got to have them laying around for cheaper than 'newly manufactured replacement parts' that aren't necessary if you can find old ones.

a new pedal player has a good year or so of learning to do before he needs more levers. quit trying to scare him off!

considering all the fools who have converted double neck steels to single neck, there have got to be piles of parts around.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 25 Dec 2013 3:29 pm

While there's truth in "two levers give you lots of music to work with," as soon as you get the hang of one or two, the lack of the rest of them will start to bother.
That said, this is a SPLENDID axe to start on, and just start setting aside the bucks for more knees: if you like the guitar, you'll want them. If you don't like the steel, then you'll have money for something else.
Almost as soon as I got the hang of "A Way To Survive," which only needs one lever, I was ready to start on the rest.
Cliff's notes version: 2 levers is enough to get started on. If the mechanical side is equal to the cosmetic side, this is a good guitar. And Buds sound great. I love mine.

Larry Baker · Post by **Larry Baker** » 25 Dec 2013 3:39 pm

Can't help you with any Sho Bud info, but welcome to the Forum. There is a wealth of information on here. Larry

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 25 Dec 2013 6:11 pm

When the haggling gets down to brass tacks, have them throw in that steel seat as well (if it isn't already part of the deal). It's a useful part of the basic set up.

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 25 Dec 2013 6:12 pm

When the haggling gets down to brass tacks, have them throw in that steel seat as well (if it isn't already part of the deal). It's a useful part of the basic set up.

Jim Wegner · Post by **Jim Wegner** » 27 Dec 2013 6:08 am

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for all the replies. I valued each and every one of them. I'll be taking a look at this Sho Bud this afternoon and giving it the once-over. After a great deal of thought, I think my top offer will be $1200 and that's it! My feeling is two-necks would be nice but the E9 neck to me is more important. If they laugh at my offer of $1200, that's fine. Put a few hundred bucks more with it and I could be looking at a NEW Justice S10 3X4 with no use or abuse issues or something else that might surface on the forum. We'll see what happens this afternoon.