A=432?

Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

Anyone ever tried tuning straight across in 432? I currently use a tempered chart but recently started playing with my other instruments at 432 and haven't played the steel with them yet. Oh yeah this is on my e9th neck, for whatever that matters Smile

curious about both necks in 432, though.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Why?
The rest of the world standardized on A440; why change that?
A432 is a third of a fret flat of standard.
Just trying to figure out what you would gain from that. No other stee player I'm aware of does this. ????
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12

Carl Kilmer · From: East Central, Illinois

Maybe he hopes to lower the string breakage. Confused

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Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

Maybe comfortable bar placement for the OP is just slightly ahead of the fret marker...I had the opposite problem.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

1/3 of a fret is more than 'slightly' in my book, Dave

Those who have studied the various tuning methodologies would probably agree that, for standard E9, the note that gets flatted the most is the F (more properly E#) on the knee lever that raises 4 and 8 one half step. Sometimes that note is around 432, depending on the method, but the 'Home Key' of E is still tuned to 440. Some tune to 441 (I do) or 442 (Paul Franklin does) so that the lowered notes (like G#, C# and E#/F) don't have to be so low.

If you don't like the sound of Equal Temperament (all open and raised/lowered strings 'straight up') with A=440 you won't like it at 432 -- it's the same relative pitches, just a third of a fret lower in pitch.

If you tune your Es to 432 you will go nuts playing with an acoustic piano unless it is also tuned way flat.

Still not sure what the problem is that tuning to 432 solves.

Is is possible that you meant 442, Mark? That would make more sense. If I recall correctly Paul has said he tunes open E's to 442 and everything else by ear, but 432 is going the wrong way, IMHO.

Question

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

i like even numbers. try 400.

Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

http://omega432.com/432-music/the-importance-of-432hz-music

http://attunedvibrations.com/432hz-healing/

432 is supposed to be universally in tune.

There are some other conspiracy sites about 432vs440 and government using 440 to detune/program us and whatnot. Don't get what I'm askin about confused with that nonsense.

Mainly interested because it says the other notes are at exact intervals, so I was wondering if anyone had tried it with a pedal.

I've heard of a few bands that tuned to this. I believe its what some mid-eastern instruments that are tuned to C are tuned in. I think the Beatles played in 432.

Also our keys are electric so they are tunable.

If no one else has tried it I may spend the next 4 hours tuning just to see what it sounds like.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I gotta call BS
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12

Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

Also, if you have a 6 string, tune it to 432 and see what you think.

Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

On what? Look, I said ignore all that nonsense in there. I'm interested in the perfect fifths and how c is at 256 when a is 432 vs c at a decimal when a is 440.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

is it numerological neatness you're looking for?

440 is not new...scroll down to the music part of this.

http://www.antigravitymovie.com/pyramid.html

Steve Collins · From: Alaska, USA

432 doesn't miraculously solve the tuning anomalies we find in 440 or any other arbitrary frequency you might base a twelve-tone scale around. It will sound different of course, and it might even sound more pleasing to you, but some people/cultures have a hard time adjusting their hearing away from what they have heard their entire lives (A=440).
As for the spiritual theories surrounding 432, who knows? I mean, undoubtedly specific frequencies have different effects on our minds and bodies, I say if 432 makes you feel good, and your audience digs it, go for it, what can it hurt?
You will find the math in this article.
http://www.bobsbasement.net/post/A-432Hz-Tuning-versus-A-440Hz-Tuning.aspx

Jim Bates · From: Alvin, Texas, USA

Early in my playing days, we had many piano players in bands which I played. This was before any electronic pianos, and you used what the club had.
So, all of us had to tune, usually down, to the piano wherever it was. Sometimes it was A=440, but a lot were lower. All of us tuned to the piano and we sounded fine. Don't worry about it.

It is best to stay in tune with the 'world' you are in when possible.

Note: on Buck Owens TV shows out of OKC, his band tuned one fret low so Buck could sing in open chords. They sounded good.

Thanx,
Jim

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I may be in the minority, but when I play music, I don't worry too much about being "harmonically in-tune with the universe". What I do worry about is being in-tune with the music and musicians I'm playing with. Wink

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I got to a gig last night where the band decided to invite a piano player to play an acoustic piano. They brought over an acoustic spinet piano from an art gallery across the street.

After we tuned up and started to sound check, we realized that the piano was way flat - actually a bit south of 432. I suspect that it was intended at C=256 but went out a bit due to the move. So we all tuned by ear to the piano - I had a universal with 12 strings and tons of pulls to set, and also tuned a bunch of the other guitars (not everyone is used to tuning by ear). There was also a fiddle, an upright bass, and a trumpet. It was PITA doing this in a rush, and not everything was perfect, but not bad, especially considering the fact that the piano was certainly not well in tune with itself.

Well, we started to play, and we all hated it. The sonority of the steel and the acoustic instruments just wasn't crisp - fiddle and bass fiddle especially. I don't have perfect pitch, but I think I have pretty good relative and even non-relative pitch, and it just sounded wrong to me.

We all reluctantly agreed on set-break to just ditch the piano and re-tune back up. It immediately sounded better to everyone, and this had nothing to do with the piano player - he's excellent - this was strictly related to the tuning. Next time, we're gonna use a good 88-key electronic piano with a good upright piano sound - we sorta' wanted that honky tonality, but it's really hard dealing with the pitchiness of most pianos that sit around a club - unless they're constantly maintained, it's just too much.

I occasionally get asked to tune down to Eb on electric guitar for a SRV/Hendrix type of sonority, but I compensate by increasing to 12-52 or 13-56 gauge strings, as did SRV - this keeps the tension up and helps with staying in tune (in my experience). I worked with a guitar player last week who routinely tunes down to Eb, but I just left my steel set up normal and played a fret flatter than him, no big deal.

If anything, I like the sonority of acoustic instruments tuned up a bit. On steel, I generally tune my roots to 442, and I like the sound better. It is my understanding that Lester Flatt tuned all the way up to F, and got a great crisp crack out of his D18 - I've done this sometimes and it sure sounds good to me.

Of course, Steve C. is also correct that tuning to a different pitch-standard doesn't eliminate the tuning (ET/JI/etc.) conundrums.

I guess a lot of this is personal preference, but I would never tune down to C=256 voluntarily.

Steve Collins · From: Alaska, USA

Yeah Dave, you bring up another thing I have certainly noticed, and that is some stringed instruments just don't take well to being detuned, the lower tensioning tends to throw necks off. I have a beautiful old beater Yamaha acoustic, as well as a newer very nice Tacoma acoustic, both of them do not tolerate being tuned other than very close to A 440.

Dave Magram · From: San Jose, California, USA

I wouldn't touch the standard pitch debate with a ten-foot tuning fork! Shocked

However, I’m really glad to see Larry Bell chiming in. Larry has the best method, hands down, for compensating for cabinet drop that I’ve ever seen. Simple and easy to remember-- and it self-adjusts depending on the degree of cabinet drop in your guitar.

Check Larry’s personal website for how to do it.

-Dave

Mark Nix · From: Arkansas, USA

Tuned my c6 neck to a=432. Sounded terrible. Ha. Immediately tuned it back.

Not going to waste my time with the e9.

It was just a question Smile

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Not to mention that the second is an arbitrary human invention. It just worked out that way...
I'd rather see the second, minute and hour renormed so that we have 10 hours of a hundred minutes of a hundred seconds per day.
We'd have to live with (roughly) 365.25 days a year because we can't renorm the orbital speed of the earth.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

432? that makes cabinet drop look like a wart on an elephant's butt! Whoa!

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

How about 480? That puts A1 at the same frequency as our God-given 60 Hz power...
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I haven't tried it yet but what Hz is the A-note when you tune down a half-step ala Buck Owens, etc...
Is that possibly what they are getting at?

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

That's 415.30
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Jim Bates · From: Alvin, Texas, USA

Hank Thompson's piano player for many years was Gil Baca, who lives in Houston. Gil help me get into the piano tuning business many years ago. He said he had to quickly learn how to tune up the 'clunkers in the clubs to pitch so the band would not have to re-tune (and Hank could sing in the proper keys).
Also, he related that many of those pianos had many broken keys (due to Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, and similar others), but he could usually get enough working and tuned so it fit with the band.

Thanx,
Jim

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