LIfting the bar...
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
-
- Posts: 55
- Joined: 26 Jan 2012 8:47 am
- Location: Mississippi, USA
LIfting the bar...
...I am having trouble with cleaning the tone when I lift it off of the strings. I keep getting the metallic 'cling' sound. Any suggestions on how to clean that up?
- Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: 28 Jun 2011 10:18 pm
- Location: Quebec, Canada
-
- Posts: 55
- Joined: 26 Jan 2012 8:47 am
- Location: Mississippi, USA
- Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: 28 Jun 2011 10:18 pm
- Location: Quebec, Canada
-
- Posts: 1004
- Joined: 30 Apr 2010 4:59 pm
- Location: Washington, USA
My steel instructors, both pedal and non-pedal, have disabused me of lifting the bar. You'll get noise every time you set the bar back down, especially that .011 G# on the 3rd string. You sound a lot more fluid if you block with your right hand and keep the steel on the strings. The only exception is when I play Cajun style. The bar hops up and down with a lot of hammer-ons in their style.
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8
-
- Posts: 21192
- Joined: 16 Feb 1999 1:01 am
- Location: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Most of the time, you don't have to lift the bar, but proper training and technique will assure that when you do, there are no extraneous noises. This is why blocking and volume pedal technique are so important.John Aldrich wrote:My steel instructors, both pedal and non-pedal, have disabused me of lifting the bar.
- Henry Matthews
- Posts: 3974
- Joined: 7 Mar 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Texarkana, Ark USA
Donny nailed it, don't lift the bar except for maybe hammer ons and off.
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.
- Richard Sinkler
- Posts: 17067
- Joined: 15 Aug 1998 12:01 am
- Location: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
I lift the bar off the strings every so often. I don't have any extra noises happening. I guess I have been doing it long enough to get it right. The one thing I can't do, and I have tried, is slide the bar down to the open position without getting the noise of the bar going over the rollers.
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 53 years and still counting.
-
- Posts: 4817
- Joined: 2 Nov 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Gum Spring, Va.
Here's how I do it. I'm already muting the strings behind the bar with my middle finger (and the rest of the hand). To lift the bar silently I slightly twist the hand to the left, like turning a doorknob. The bar lifts while the finger is still muting the strings. Then the whole hand can be lifted. It is a night & day difference in noise between this and just lifting the bar straight off the strings and with practice it is just as simple and efficient a motion.
- Daniel Policarpo
- Posts: 1941
- Joined: 5 May 2010 9:01 pm
- Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
-
- Posts: 1011
- Joined: 17 Mar 2013 9:06 am
- Location: Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
Next time I'm at the guitar I'll try to pay attention to what I do.
I came to pedal steel from Dobro, and I can play "Pickaway" in A on the C6 neck with a round bar.
Obviously you can't mute behind the bar if you're Fluxifying or Mooneyizing. I am hundreds of miles from my guitar but I think the key is to lift the bar cleanly, and put it back down cleanly and quickly. Indecisive or tentative playing will ALWAYS yield buzzy or weak tone.
There are a few ways and contexts for lifting the bar; what are you trying to do when you lift?
I came to pedal steel from Dobro, and I can play "Pickaway" in A on the C6 neck with a round bar.
Obviously you can't mute behind the bar if you're Fluxifying or Mooneyizing. I am hundreds of miles from my guitar but I think the key is to lift the bar cleanly, and put it back down cleanly and quickly. Indecisive or tentative playing will ALWAYS yield buzzy or weak tone.
There are a few ways and contexts for lifting the bar; what are you trying to do when you lift?
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
- Ray Montee
- Posts: 9506
- Joined: 7 Jul 1999 12:01 am
- Location: Portland, Oregon (deceased)
- Contact:
About 'lifting' the bar..............
Don't you get a staccato sound when you lift the bar?
I tho't the steel guitar was supposed to be a fluid tonal instrument?
I tho't the steel guitar was supposed to be a fluid tonal instrument?
Ray, the steel can croon like Bing, belt like Frank, or scat like Louis.
It's hard to play either Steel Guitar Rag or Remington Ride without lifting.
Even if you don't do it often , We're all gonna want to do it cleanly.
It's hard to play either Steel Guitar Rag or Remington Ride without lifting.
Even if you don't do it often , We're all gonna want to do it cleanly.
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
- Bob Hoffnar
- Posts: 9244
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Austin, Tx
- Contact:
- Richard Sinkler
- Posts: 17067
- Joined: 15 Aug 1998 12:01 am
- Location: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
I am pretty much like George. I know I do it, but really don't know why. It's a subconscious thing. I mostly use it to go from one position to another without sliding the bar. I'll have to pay attention this week to see if I can figure out why.This is one of those techniques I actually have to go back and figure out how I do it, as I routinely lift the bar both to move and to mute no matter what tune I am playing. The "no noise" lifting and landing of the bar is something that has come about through practice without me thinking about "how".
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 53 years and still counting.
- Henry Matthews
- Posts: 3974
- Joined: 7 Mar 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Texarkana, Ark USA
I want to clarify my post, I was a little vague. Lifting the bar is a bad habit to get into to substitute for blocking. I know several steelers that come from the old school of playing non-pedals that use the bar lifting method as a substitute for blocking and it takes away from their playing to me.Henry Matthews wrote:Donny nailed it, don't lift the bar except for maybe hammer ons and off.
If you are a beginner, then learn other ways of blocking, pick or palm, and keep the bar on the strings. That is unless you are using for an effect or hammer ons, etc.
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.
- Richard Sinkler
- Posts: 17067
- Joined: 15 Aug 1998 12:01 am
- Location: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
I'm not going to go back and read every post again, but I don't remember anyone saying they use the bar lifting as a substitute for any other type of blocking. I certainly don'tHenry Matthews wrote:I want to clarify my post, I was a little vague. Lifting the bar is a bad habit to get into to substitute for blocking. I know several steelers that come from the old school of playing non-pedals that use the bar lifting method as a substitute for blocking and it takes away from their playing to me.Henry Matthews wrote:Donny nailed it, don't lift the bar except for maybe hammer ons and off.
If you are a beginner, then learn other ways of blocking, pick or palm, and keep the bar on the strings. That is unless you are using for an effect or hammer ons, etc.
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 53 years and still counting.
- Bob Hoffnar
- Posts: 9244
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Austin, Tx
- Contact:
- Henry Matthews
- Posts: 3974
- Joined: 7 Mar 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Texarkana, Ark USA
Well Richard, maybe you don't but the ones I was taking about do. I'm by no means an expert or a pro in any sense. This is just my observation from some players that have learned other means an ways of doing things. It's the way they learned and they'll never change. I still think if you are just beginning to play steel, it's a bad habit to get into that will hold a player back in certain ways.
Maybe we are thinking about different kind of bar lifting. I too lift the bar at times but I don't do it sliding up or down the neck to block the last notes. I just got thru watching the Big E playing on on YouTube and he don't either.
Maybe we are thinking about different kind of bar lifting. I too lift the bar at times but I don't do it sliding up or down the neck to block the last notes. I just got thru watching the Big E playing on on YouTube and he don't either.
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.
- Richard Sinkler
- Posts: 17067
- Joined: 15 Aug 1998 12:01 am
- Location: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
I don't lift it to mute either if I am going to another fret up or down the neck. The notes are already blocked with my palm or pick blocked. And to be specific, I think it is only when I am playing fills in a song. There would be silence as the singer sings, then I will be at the fret position ready to fill in that space.
But you are right, Henry. If a beginner uses it instead of learning the correct methods to block, then it is a bad habit, or "technique" to learn.
But you are right, Henry. If a beginner uses it instead of learning the correct methods to block, then it is a bad habit, or "technique" to learn.
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 53 years and still counting.
A Video Is Worth More than a 1000 Words
Blocking behind the bar is the key.
The intro to Al Brisco's song "Ralph's Reel" is an excellent exercise in hammer-ons and pull-offs using this technique.
It is taught here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvC_CCApEG4
The technique is shown slowly with close-ups.
Well worth the study!
The intro to Al Brisco's song "Ralph's Reel" is an excellent exercise in hammer-ons and pull-offs using this technique.
It is taught here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvC_CCApEG4
The technique is shown slowly with close-ups.
Well worth the study!