Removing pulls

Alex Cattaneo · From: Quebec, Canada

I decided to take one of my guitars and take out some pulls to have the exact same copedent as Lloyd Green. Now, if I remove the 9th string lower, I loose the half stop on string 2 (d#-d). Is there anyway I can loose the string 9 lower and still keep the half stop on string 2?

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Yes, with a dedicated half-stop rig (spring-loaded). Is this on a Bud?

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Jim Palenscar and Tom Bradshaw both sell MSA-type half stops, and pretty sure both Show Pro and Jackson sell the Bud type. They're similar to each other.
I prefer them to the feel stop of the 9th string: you can adjust the amount of resistance.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Alex Cattaneo · From: Quebec, Canada

No, the half stop was provided by the split tuning bar and screw. I guess I'm gonna have to leave that one alone.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Alex, you can add a half stop to a guitar, riding in the (now unused) 9th string bellcrank. About 50 bucks in hardware.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Alex Cattaneo · From: Quebec, Canada

Lane, can you translate that for the mechanically impaired? I have no idea what you're talking about, ha ha ha!

Dave O'Brien · From: Florida and New Jersey

Are you using the 1975 copedant from Winnie's book? Has Lloyd stuck to the same tuning ever since?
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Dave O'Brien
Emmons D-10, CMI D-10, Fender Deluxe Reverb, PV 112, Fender Pro Reverb
www.myspace.com/daveobrienband

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Photo courtesy of Chris LeDrew from an old exchange of info:

This is how Buds handle a feeler stop. The lever moves freely until it feels the resistance of the spring rig.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Some pics of the Sho~Bud half stop. Maybe someone can come on and explain exactly how it works. Both the Buds hat I had didn't have this type of half stop.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Alex, Jon's picture shows it pretty clear (As does Richard's), but I'll explain what's happening so it makes sense.
The puller has no set screw, as you move the lever, the puller moves freely along the rod until it hits the barrel, when the second string hits D. The spring on the other side of the barrel gives the resistance that you feel. Does that make sense, or should I try again?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Jon's actually shows it adjusted better than the pictures I had. I was wondering why there was so much space between the barrel and the collar and spring. Obviously it was not set up correctly.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Here's some pics of the MSA, which is similar, but a little different, the tuning screw is out at the other end:
Here it's at rest at D#, notice that the bellcrank isn't near the pullpin on the rod:

Here it is just when it hits D, the bellcrank is at the corner of the pull pin on the rod:

Here it's fully lowered to C#, notice (but it's subtle) that the spring is more compressed and the bellcrank is farther over)

All the pull rods are out, but I left the half stop in (I had to pull the changer, dumbass me left a rod and tuning nut sticking out too far, and the case bent a finger, it's ready to reassemble, but it's a low priority at the moment)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Alex Cattaneo · From: Quebec, Canada

Ok, I get it. I had a ShoBud before so I know this set-up, but this is a recent justice S10 and I don't want to mess around too much with it. I think I better leave it and just remember not to use the 9th string lower. Anyhow, it's not a change that I use a lot, unlike the 4th string lower which you really have to remove because it is pretty hard to ignore.

Alex Cattaneo · From: Quebec, Canada

Dave, check out the "Wine" post in the tablature section, ricky posted Lloyd's copedent. That's what I'm going for. All I did was back off the nylon tuners on the lowers for string 4 and 6, and change the bellcrank hole for the 1st string to get a half-step raise instead of a full step. I'm going to go through all my LG transcriptions with that setup to male sure I didn't overlook anything. I knew about the 4th string lower, or lack thereof, but that half-step raise on string 1 might lead to some interesting options.

Alex Cattaneo · From: Quebec, Canada

Isn't there a way I could use the 9th string rod as a feel stop without the string itself lowering?

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

If the changer is tapped for splits, you could run the screw til it holds the string at D (might need a trip to the hardware store for a longer screw).
That way, the rod starts pulling, but the scissor takes the slack.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Alex Cattaneo · From: Quebec, Canada

Lane, do you mean the screw on string 9? Or try with a split-tuning screw on string 2?

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

I'm not picturing Lane's tapped changer but my answer would be 'no'. Although if you think of the Sho-Bud hardware as a substitute for the changer finger (and shorten the pull rod), then yes, sort of.
I love the Carter method (which I never used on my Carter because I was not a fan of half stops at the time). They have an 11th (or 13th) finger on the changer that is a dummy--it has a return spring for tension but does not hook up to any strings. Great idea.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Use the existing setup with the 9th string nylon nut engaging when the 2nd string hits D, but with the set screw of string 9 preventing 9 from dropping at all. Then when you want that change back, just turn the screw til it lowers to C#
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

fifty bucks!!!!!! yer crazy!
that's the type of easy mechanics that any self-respecting steel player should be able to wangle or make for free or $5.

a bracket, a spring a rod and some collars. that's what my junk bags are full of.

fifty bucks???????

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Chris, as a trucker doing (half of) 310,000 miles a year, I'd rather throw some money at Jim, Tom or Michael. I'm rarely home.
Yeah, it's not hard to make one if you have a tap and die. One of those three cats wants more, one wants less.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

1) Pull the 7th a whole as a sub! Tweak bell holes accordingly..

2) Lower second string only to D on that lever ... and lower it to C-sharp on the Es lowered lever... No half stop required. A whole new world opens up, A whole new world goes away, that's how she rolls!
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A.K.A Chappy.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Larry, that makes a step AWAY from the stated goal of using Lloyd's setup.
Just sayin'
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Geez... the ninth string lower is maybe my favorite change on E9.

Alex Cattaneo · From: Quebec, Canada

I'm definitely not giving up on any of those changes, and my main guitar remains as it is now, but since I spend quite a bit of time trying to figure out Lloyd's stuff, I thought it would be fun to have a guitar with his set-up, even though I have always kept it mind, for the most part, when transcribing. Not having a lower on string 4 REALLY forces you to use the 2nd string! It's really a pedagogical experiment.

One thing though, does it ever make a guitar easy to play when you have only one pull per lever! WOW!!! All the RKL does is raise a tiny string a semi-tone, while the RKR only lowers another tiny string.

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