Teach your children wrong?

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 26 Dec 2012 6:34 am

Yes I love the volume pedal swells in "Helpless." Apparently Stills used a Sho-Bud volume pedal.

robert kramer · Post by **robert kramer** » 26 Dec 2012 7:36 am

Re: “The guitar on “Helpless was a pretty good PSG emulation." – Joachim Kettner

I have a theory Neil Young was influenced by Johnny Patterson – especially Patterson’s ride on “Maiden’s Prayer” from “Bob Wills Sings and Plays ” released 1963 (Liberty 3303)

@1:09 on Bob Wills Maiden’s Prayer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoHTvf7aCWw

Compare with “Here We Are in the Years” from Neil Young’s first solo LP “Neil Young” released 1968 (Reprise RS 6317)

@1:53 & especially at 2:13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maOEzI4SnGI

I think this is Johnny Patterson on this Bob Wills footage (w/ Gene Crownover and Maurice Anderson). If it is JP he is sitting audience left of Maurice Anderson:

Bob Wills/Luke Wills: “Take Me Back to Tulsa”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--_AXFcm48o

Johnny Patterson info:

http://www.leeswing88.se/index.php?opti ... 7&Itemid=6

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 26 Dec 2012 7:38 am

I always thought Stills played the swells on "Helpless."

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 26 Dec 2012 8:23 am

I'm with Chris here, because the guitar tone is very similar to the solo on "Pretty Girl Why" from their last album. But I could be wrong.
Robert,too bad I can't hear what Joel Patterson plays because of copyright reasons.
The lick in "If I could have her tonight" at 2:13 was called once "the Buffalo Springfield lick" by Ritchie Furay.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 26 Dec 2012 8:25 am

Yes the Springfield triplet I think they called it. The Byrds used a variation of it as well in a lot of their solos.

Robert, great links. I guess Neil had country on his radar in a big way to add a cover of "Oh Lonesome Me" to After the Gold Rush.

robert kramer · Post by **robert kramer** » 26 Dec 2012 12:24 pm

Joachim - "Maiden's Prayer" from "Bob Wills Sing & Plays" is available iTunes. In fact - if you play the sample you will hear Johnny Patterson's guitar at the end of the sample. Wills cut "Maiden's Prayer" many times - make sure it's the "Bob Wills Sings & Plays" version for the comparison to Neil Young.

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 26 Dec 2012 12:50 pm

Intersting article as i worked with Johnny Patterson when i was with the Miller Bros swing band. Think this was some where close to 1961. Johnny played lead guitar and fronted the band as Sam and Leon Gibbs had gone into the booking biz. Swing was dying out at the time and Johnny went to work for Bob Wills. Can't recall her name but a woman in N.M.bought the Miller Bros band and that Flex bus we froze on during the winter.
Small world as i also played in the
southern club in the late 50s. I was still playing fiddle at the time and later played steel with Joe Carson in and around Wichita Falls,Tx.shortly before his car accident.
Small world and i may be wrong on the dates as it was so long ago and i have slept since then.
Hope all have a great new year. Tracy

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 27 Dec 2012 5:46 am

Chris LeDrew wrote

Bruce was, in my opinion, perhaps rock's best bassist

Here Here!

Here is a pic of the original members at Stephen's house in the 80's

admin · Post by **b0b** » 27 Dec 2012 9:45 am

which one is the steel player?

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 27 Dec 2012 10:22 am

STEPHEN STILLS' GUITARS (List from 1976 Guitar Player)

Electric Instruments / Model No.
Ampeg Upright Bass
Coral Sitar 821068
Epiphone Zephyr Deluxe 64793
D'Angelico New Yorker 2103
D'Angelico New Yorker
Fender Precision Bass 178986
Fender Precision Bass 50519
Fender Stratocaster (Lefty) 18093
Fender Stratocaster (Sunburst) 7877
Gibson Double Neck (prototype) 70001
Gibson Violin Bass 32682
Gibson Les Paul special (black) 78536
Gibson Firebird 15249
Gibson Firebird
Gibson Firebird (white)
Gibson Firebird Bass
Gibson ES
Gibson Lap Steel 227-24
Gibson Super 400 819930
Gibson Les Paul (Sunburst) 0-8087
Guild Blonde 12-string e1-0114
Guild Blue
Gretsch White Falcon 31476
Gretsch White Penguin 26330
Gretsch White Falcon
Gretsch Country Gentleman (club) 35309
Gretsch Country Gentleman 35121
Gretsch Country Gentleman 36978
Gretsch Country Gentleman (D.C.)
Gretsch Chet Atkins 23462
Gretsch Chet Atkins (orange) 35937
Gretsch Chet Atkins 25807
...I can only assume he played it....

admin · Post by **b0b** » 27 Dec 2012 11:53 am

That's a stretch...

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 27 Dec 2012 11:58 am

Interesting that in such a large collection, not a single Tele. Also what's with the Lefty Strat??

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 27 Dec 2012 12:29 pm

Jimbeaux, The lefty, possibly, could be this one:
http://www.rockstarsguitars.com/jimi-he ... er-2-1928/

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 27 Dec 2012 1:06 pm

I guess so! Wonder how much it fetched at auction?

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 27 Dec 2012 1:51 pm

In Re: the original subject, I'm quite sure that in the studio recording world it's very possible that several takes could have been done.

However, you would think that even in NY's world it should be obvious that it's pedal steel that everybody is hearing on the released version.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 27 Dec 2012 1:56 pm

robert kramer wrote: make sure it's the "Bob Wills Sings & Plays" version for the comparison to Neil Young.

Wow Robert! This is indeed very similar to the early Neil Young style.

Ken Greene · Post by **Ken Greene** » 27 Dec 2012 10:03 pm

I think Donny might be on to something.

Donny Hinson wrote:In the immortal words of Tommy Chong:

And to all thos people who think that pot affects your memory, I just want to say one thing...

uhhhh...

uhhh...

uhh...

Ken Greene · Post by **Ken Greene** » 27 Dec 2012 10:05 pm

Roger Miller wrote:Ever notice why big music stars always have someone write their memoirs? Like Neil, they don't know where they ....... last, cause they were busy coming up with far fetched answers to questions they intended to answer someday.

SOUND LIKE A PEDAL TO ME

Haha... Roger is right on!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 28 Dec 2012 3:34 am

Steven Stills often said that Jimi Hendrix "taught" him how to play lead guitar. I don't think the "lessons" lasted very long...

One of the major impediments to full CSN - &"Y" - reunions over the years has been "who gets to play the guitar solos?" Since neither one of them is either willing OR able to reproduce (or improve upon) the album tracks, it must make for some entertaining discussions.

A: Hire Dean Parks....

admin · Post by **b0b** » 28 Dec 2012 9:31 am

This topic has drifted. Should it now be moved to the Music section?

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 28 Dec 2012 9:35 am

It has drifted a little, but please don't close it, I really enjoy the history.

Joe Goldmark · Post by **Joe Goldmark** » 29 Dec 2012 9:57 pm

Here's a version of "Helpless" that I recorded with Brandi Shearer singing. I did some "steel imitating a guitar imitating a steel" swells on the solo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkZtSCu68us

Joe

Slide-OZ · Post by **Slide-OZ** » 12 Nov 2013 11:53 am

The "Teach Your Children" mistake was a really annoying part of the book. If Garcia had done a scratch take on a lap steel prior to doing the final part, that would have been interesting enough to mention explicitly.

Only 2 explanations: 1) Neil has only listened to the MP3 version of Teach Your Children and hence can't tell the difference (sarcasm). 2)Ben Keith is the only person in Neil's universe who actually plays a pedal steel.

Don Griffiths · Post by **Don Griffiths** » 17 Jul 2014 3:47 pm

robert kramer wrote:Re:

I have a theory Neil Young was influenced by Johnny Patterson - especially Patterson's ride on "Maiden's Prayer" from "Bob Wills Sings and Plays" released 1963 (Liberty 3303)

@1:09 on Bob Wills Maiden's Prayer

Thanks Robert, I have a new "old favorite" to learn.

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 17 Jul 2014 5:13 pm

Jim Cohen wrote:Interesting that in such a large collection, not a single Tele. Also what's with the Lefty Strat??

Stills played a Tele with CSN when they opened for Tom Petty a couple years ago in Nashville...great show!

The Steel Guitar Forum

Teach your children wrong?

Re: J Patterson