What is it? Emmons sd10?

Keir Gallite · Post by **Keir Gallite** » 31 Oct 2013 9:03 am

Thank you for having me. My father is a bluegrass picker and came across this guitar. There is no model or serial number that we can find.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 31 Oct 2013 9:54 am

Looks like one to me. Nice guitar.

Walter Bowden · Post by **Walter Bowden** » 31 Oct 2013 10:02 am

I do believe you have an Emmons p/p "Loafer" which is what they named SD 10s back in the 70s. I can't tell for sure, but it looks like a cut tail with a wooden neck. The serial # is usually stamped in the changer end endplate. There are some very good Emmons experts on the Forum and pics of SN on Emmons can be found. If it is the real deal and in good shape, you could have a really nice and valuable pedal steel with the legendry push pull tone. Forum members like Lynn Stafford, Mike Cass, Billy Knowles and others would have much more knowledge and information to share. It would be helpful if you can take some pics of the underside and post them. If you do locate the SN you can probably date it's building period.
Good Luck and Best Wishes, Walter

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 31 Oct 2013 10:11 am

It is worthless, and toxic. You should send it to me for safe disposal.

just kidding. That is a fine guitar.

Keir Gallite · Post by **Keir Gallite** » 31 Oct 2013 10:13 am

Good call found 12X ST stamped into it.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 31 Oct 2013 10:22 am

From what I can see in the picture, I believe it's a bolt-on.

Definitely a nice Emmons. Did y'all buy it?

Keir Gallite · Post by **Keir Gallite** » 31 Oct 2013 10:32 am

Yes, we bought it

Keir Gallite · Post by **Keir Gallite** » 31 Oct 2013 10:48 am

Maybe these will help.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 31 Oct 2013 11:10 am

It looks like it could use a good cleaning underneath.
But it's easy for amateurs to bollix up a Pushpull. They're simple, but finicky. Kinda like an SU carb.

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 31 Oct 2013 11:51 am

Keir, private email sent.

How many knees?

Based on the tuners and slimmer, but maybe not slimmest cast pedals, looks like a mid to late 70s model. Except for a very few unusual later iterations or custom models, almost all wood neck models have the bolt on changer.

best jw

Keir Gallite · Post by **Keir Gallite** » 31 Oct 2013 12:56 pm

Not to sound too green but what is the difference in sound between the aluminum and wood neck?

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 31 Oct 2013 1:06 pm

I'll have to agree with Lane, it's also very dangerous, send it to me, please.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 31 Oct 2013 1:25 pm

Some say wood necks are darker/aluminum necks are brighter.
But not enough for one to identify construction from listening to a record.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 31 Oct 2013 2:11 pm

that is the first wood neck/formica body model that i've seen with neck inlay. usually they are solid black and kid of ugly. this one looks cool.
pedals don't look slim to me. butterfly tuners..mid/late 70's. neck inlay..late 70's /early '80's. interesting model. doesn't look all grunged up to me the way lane said it did. some of my steels look alot scarier underneath.

Jerry Kippola · Post by **Jerry Kippola** » 31 Oct 2013 2:33 pm

R U lookin for offers?

Keir Gallite · Post by **Keir Gallite** » 31 Oct 2013 2:53 pm

I'm enjoying the education guys. I would say the underside looks darker in the pictures than in person. I am curious about the inlay work around the neck. I have a few rare instruments but they would not be appropriate for this forum. Some have asked about offers, of course. I do have the original case with no smoke smell at all.

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 31 Oct 2013 4:08 pm

Tiny Chief cap, wide pedals and wide spacing -- looks that way to me -- but the tulip Klusons, throw me. If there are are bushings in the apron for ten cross shafts I will say 1973/4. If there are bushings for nine I will say 1973, or the Klusons were changed and it could be 1970-1973.

Keir Gallite · Post by **Keir Gallite** » 31 Oct 2013 4:24 pm

I counted 11, I am in no way an expert but there are 8 unused.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 31 Oct 2013 5:19 pm

The changer's a bolt-on. Very nice gtr.
I had a wood neck Loafer once...bought it new in '76, and sold it. Bad move on my part.
Mine was green-burst laq. Sure wish I'd kept it.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 31 Oct 2013 5:24 pm

After looking more, I think that was a D-10 with back neck removed. What do y'all think?

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 31 Oct 2013 5:28 pm

I'm thinking that the tuners are not original to that guitar. The Kluson butterfly buttons were about 1977-78, but the rest of the guitar looks earlier than that.

After looking more, I think that was a D-10 with back neck removed. What do y'all think?

Yes, I was thinking that too. The pad on the rear doesn't look right to me. It doesn't look like other Emmons Loafer pads I've seen, but it could just be the lighting in the picture. A clear pic of the undercarriage would show any screw holes (if hardware had been removed)... but holes can be filled and undersides can be re-flocked, so who knows...

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 31 Oct 2013 10:31 pm

The picture in the catalog was shot in late summer 73. The green guitar belonged to Tommy Dodd. That was the first time I saw that style inlay.

The pedal size and spacing make me think 1970. But could have been custom ordered. So you can't go by the pedal size and spacing. I'll say fer sure the neck is 73 or a few years later.

I'm no Mike Cass. Not trying to be. But I do know about the catalog shoot.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 31 Oct 2013 10:35 pm

Now that I'm not driving, I looked again: what I thought was oil gunge now just looks like a reflection on the stainless, of the brass (and vice versa).

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 31 Oct 2013 10:35 pm

I deleted my first post as I just spotted something very seriously wrong with that guitar that everyone including me seems to have missed upon first inspection.......... the wood neck should be mounted from the topside with 1 3/4"x #12 wood screws located under the fretboard. The underside pic clearly shows what appear to be two 6/32 machine screws below the cross-strap going up thru the body in the general area of where the mid-body mtg. screws for a metal neck should be. The guitar may be a real ST-10, but that bit of oddness leads me to believe that the guitar originally started life as a metal neck instrument. Even if the metal neck to wood neck conversion had been performed by the Emmons Guitar Co. or its AUTHORIZED repair station, the metal neck mtg holes would've been filled and flocked over and the wood neck would've been mounted from the top, which is how I was taught by Ron Lashley, Sr. way back when. This all means that not only is the neck probably not original, but the tailpiece was of course added as well as the bolt-on changer cage(the original fingers may have been used however). Also, a wood neck guitar from that vintage(wide pedals & wide spacing)should have a flat-faced keyhead where the neck butts up to it. Hard to see but I believe its cupped there.
Also, the 3-slotted stop appears to be doing more than it should be(generally acts as a final stop for the RKR). Anything else its being used for would've been installed after-market. The pad looks like the grained type that we used in the 70's and the neck inlay is perfectly in keeping with the motif at the time, but there also appear to be 6/32 screws holding down the pad on the back side...that's wrong... we use #10 wood screws for that. The ser# is weird too...12X ST ??? that's henky.
Add to that the wide pedals & butterfly Kluson's...yeah...curiouser and curiouser.

MC

Dave Magram · Post by **Dave Magram** » 31 Oct 2013 10:39 pm

It looks like there are holes in the endplate to access where the C6 changer tuning screws would be.
So I'm guessing it probably started out as a D-10.

-Dave