MSA Red Baron Set-up Help

Jonathan Stewart · Post by **Jonathan Stewart** » 23 Oct 2013 8:54 am

Hello new friends,
I have been lurking for quite some time, I.E trying to find a decently priced starter steel on the classifieds, and after finally making the plunge, I have some set up questions. As I have learned and attempted, the A pedal(the rightmost one in the line of three my steel has) should be tuned with the kluson-style tuners at the left end of the body to C# with the pedal engaged, then the disengaged B of the tenth string(largest gauge string closest to player)with the small hex screws at the right end of the guitars Bridge/saddle area. Forgive my terminology, I am a luthier by trade and have little knowledge of pedal steel terminology, although I am eager to learn!. My issue is that I tune the open string to B using the klusons, engage the pedal, tune the string again using the kluson to a C#, disengage the pedal,and when I attempt to tune the open string back down to B with the hex screw, the screw pulls away from the Bridge/Saddle device(Terminology?) before it reaches the B. I gets about as flat as my tuner recognizes as C. Any help would be greatly appreciated, terminology wise, set up wise and any other helpful bits you can provide. I have read and downloaded the Sidekick manual and this is where i learned the raise/key head, release/hex screw tuning procedure.

Thanks

Jon
Ps: If I cant figure this out, does anyone know someone who can help in the Boulder/Denver area?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Oct 2013 12:06 pm

Sounds like you need more pedal travel on the A pedal, so that you can have some more slack on the pull rod.
Or, if the finger on the changer has more holes through which to run the rod, move it closer to the string (up when on its legs, down when in the case
See the diagram in this thread here.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=254337

Jonathan Stewart · Post by **Jonathan Stewart** » 23 Oct 2013 12:12 pm

How would I adjust to alow more pedal travel.. I will check to see if i can move the rod as well.

Mark Greer · Post by **Mark Greer** » 23 Oct 2013 12:21 pm

Get with Dick Meis (local guru); he's in Thorton, CO.

http://pedalsteelguitar.net/

Jonathan Stewart · Post by **Jonathan Stewart** » 23 Oct 2013 4:13 pm

The finger does not have any other holes to mount the pull(?) rod in. I have attempted moving the small stopper, that mounts on the end of this rod, or the side opposite the pedals,with a small allen wrench and still can not get the bridge adjustment to tune low enough to reach B. Very frustrating

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Oct 2013 6:38 pm

These things are a collection of simple machines: levers, joined by rods. If it pulls up to the body with the A pedal, then we just have to figut out why it won't relax to B. If you're near Gary, I bet he'd have it sussed quick.
If you're mechanically handy AND the B and C pedals work correctly, invert the guitar in its case, observe the workings of pedals, rods and fingers. You should have a Sesame Street moment; one of these things is not lIke the others.

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 23 Oct 2013 7:17 pm

On a pull/release or push/pull, there needs to be enough slack on raise rod linkage, to allow the lower to work. You need more slack on that rod. That means you probably will have to move the collar, the one with the set screw, a little farther back on the rod. Try moving it a bit, then tuning. Repeat until you have enough slack for both the raise and the lower to work.

Jonathan Stewart · Post by **Jonathan Stewart** » 24 Oct 2013 8:19 am

I feel, after much trail and tribulation, that my issue is the amount the actual pedal travels. I have now figured out how to adjust pedal height, but i still can not get enough motion from the pedal. Is this adjustment made on the rod that connects the pedal to the underside of the body?. I have made many adjustments to the small locking washer/nut device attached to the end of the transverse rod that runs through the changer finger, both forward and back, and still run into the issue of not being able to drop the pitch enough with the changer end adjustments. Am i right in assuming that both the pedal height adjustment, as well as the pedal travel adjustment are found on the vertical rod connecting the actual pedal to the underside of the instrument, and in making an adjustment, not to the pedal height , found right against the ball and socket joint found on the pedal end of this rod, but to the other locking not section, found a few inches higher on the rod, i can achieve more motion from my pedal. And if I am correct in this assumption, do i need to move this system of nuts farther up the rod toward the body when the instrument is in playing position, or farther down, towards the pedal?

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 24 Oct 2013 9:35 am

Verify the manual applies to your instrument. There may be some differences between Red Barons and Sidekicks.

Have you verified the string is gauged correctly? Lots of times it's just the simple things. My Red Baron was hard to tune, but it was an adequate starter instrument.

Jonathan Stewart · Post by **Jonathan Stewart** » 24 Oct 2013 9:54 am

Well i strung it using a pack of GHS boomer E9th strings. I believe the tenth string in this set is.02 less than the sidekick manual suggests....will string gauge affect this issue?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 24 Oct 2013 9:58 am

It has been forever since I've seen the underside of a Red Baron (and when I did, I'd not yet developed any understanding of the mechanics).
There should be, somewhere attached to the rod that runs across the body, a stop that limits how much that rod moves (sometimes the stop is fixed to the rod, but an adjustment is made on the body).
The string gauge could very well account for your difficulty.

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 24 Oct 2013 10:02 am

.02 difference in string diameter would not cause the problem you describe. Good luck. You'll eventually figure it out.

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 24 Oct 2013 10:42 am

Changing the pedal height will not affect anything.
The issue is: the position of the collar on the rod interferes with the lowering to B.

The changer finger should be centered when it's at B. If you start with the changer finger out of position, that would cause your problem. The tuning screw should be holding it in the centered position. Put some tension on the string, adjust the screw so the changer finger is centered. Tune to B, tune the raise, try to tune the B with the screw. If you still can't, move the collar back a bit. Try tuning again.

Jonathan Stewart · Post by **Jonathan Stewart** » 24 Oct 2013 12:19 pm

i have moved the color around a bit and have gotten the string to lower with the hex screw to a B, however, when i re-engage the pedal, to make sure it goes back to c#, the string raises to somewhere around C. I think the issue, and correct me if im wrong, is not the position of the collar or finger, but how much the pedal actually pulls the rod that pulls the finger.

John Bresler · Post by **John Bresler** » 24 Oct 2013 12:54 pm

I'd agree with Mark, get in contact with Dick Meis or Chuck Lettes. Dick or Chuck will have you up and running in no time.

clettes@comcast.net or www.pedalsteelguitar.net

Both are excellent steel techs.

If you live outside of the Denver area a simple phone call will get great results also.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 24 Oct 2013 9:03 pm

Jonathon,
If your A pedal is raising the 5th string as well as the 10th, then you will probably have to move the collar on the 5th as well as the 10th to get the extra pedal travel that is needed.

I've looked at some photos of a Red Baron, I suggest that you slacken the 5th collar right off, then move the 10th collar until the 10th finger touches the body of the steel when the A pedal is activated.

Now adjust the 5th collar, by trial and error, until the 5th finger is touching the body at the same time as the 10th finger is touching the body, when the A pedal is activated.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Oct 2013 6:09 am

The 'Baron mechanics are about the same as any pull-release guitar, a one piece finger and a single adjustment screw. Making it capable of raising and lowering the same string simply requires some modifications, and the addition of an adjustable spring-stop (like a half-stop tuner). While this is beyond the capability of most players, it's well within those of any good steel tech.