Sustain and pickups.

[Travis Lyon]

I have an MSA Classic (Not an SS or XL) from 1977 with the original SuperSustain I pickup. The guitar sounds good through my Twin Reverb, but I want a little more sustain and clarity in my tone. I was wondering if changing out the pickup to something like a TrueTone would help in this? I understand pickups don't inherently add or subtract sustain from an instrument, but I've heard great things and was hoping this may be an easy way to significantly improve the tone without buying a new steel. Mainly because I am poor.

[Ricky Davis]

Travis; that is actually a great question. Let me put a few thoughts to chew on; on the table.
Ok in the overall output of making the steel guitar sound; not considering all the materials combined to make the sound when you first set the string(s) in motion; basically this is what is happening pertaining to your question.
First thing is you strike the string; vibrate if you will...and that string vibrates in the back and forth direction of the angle you strike it. A pure side to side will give you the best;widest vibration to be equally picked up by the microphone underneath. That microphone is your pickup and those are magnets pulling down from the field above. If the magnets are too close; they will start limiting that movement immediately upon striking them and sustain of those strings die off faster. If the magnet field is too far; it will not pickup the quality of the vibration at attack.
So just changing a pickup if both pickups old and new are working; will not do too much(humbucker to single coil and visa versa will). The striking of the string and where/how they move in correlation to how far the magnet field is; it more important.
Ricky

[Jim Pitman]

This likely isn't helpful but.....
I've owned MSA/Shobud/Zum/Emmons/Fessenden/Infinity. I have tried various pickups in each and have determined that sustain appears to be inherent in the design/structure of the guitar. BTW, the last three mentioned above have/had the best sustain of the bunch, not to say this is the case with all of a particular brand, just the ones I've owned anyway.
Yes, you can affect the overall tone by swapping out pickups, but changing the sustain is another matter.
Like Ricky says you can adjust a pickup to optimize it (to a small degree).
My experience has been generally, if the PSG is acoustically loud it stands a good chance of having good sustain/tone when you plug it in. Others here may argue against that.
Here's another hypothesis people will argue with - By observation, those guitars with bulky necks and tops have less sustain. Unfortunately, those guitars with less bulky tops and necks that have good sustain are likely to exhibit more cabinet detune.
Designing in sustain with good tuning stability seems to be illusive. That subject alone warrants a thesis. My theory is the neck/top must resonate a bit, or perhaps be tuned to a resonance favoring the range of tones you like and want to sustain (like the fundamental for a starter).
Some folks have experimented with the tightness of neck screws with favorable results. Though, not a great solution, try loosening the neck screws or remove the neck entirely to see if this changes things. If I remember correctly, that's not too dificult to do with an MSA.

[Bob Carlucci]

I have an MSA Classic (Not an SS or XL) from 1977 with the original SuperSustain I pickup. The guitar sounds good through my Twin Reverb, but I want a little more sustain and clarity in my tone. I was wondering if changing out the pickup to something like a TrueTone would help in this? I understand pickups don't inherently add or subtract sustain from an instrument, but I've heard great things and was hoping this may be an easy way to significantly improve the tone without buying a new steel. Mainly because I am poor.

Travis.. You didn't mention if your MSA was a mica body or maple/lacquer.. If its mica, you will knowck your head against the wall trying to get good sustain.. Many of them simply won't do it.. They had "dead" plywood bodies, and they just don't ring... I know, I tried... If its a maple body, it really should have sustain to burn, unless you got a bad one.. There is a huge difference in the sound and sustain of mica and wood MSA guitars.. I would recommend putting a Wallace Truetone single coil pickup in.. It is a much better sounding pickup than the MSA SS humbucker.. Also try putting a good half rack compressor/limiter between your steel guitar and amp.. Won't color the tone, and will "squeeze" the signal and help get more sustain...

One thing for you to try before you buy a new pickup.... Angle the SS pickup quite low in front, and high in the back near the changer... Your steel will sound a LOT better,,, It takes out a lot of the muddiness. Your rear coil will be closer to the strings, and increase the clarity, and there is something about the change in the magnetic field angk=le off the strings that adds a sweeter more "glassy" sound.. Its a pretty dramatic difference, and it won't cost a nickel... The pickup has to have quite a steep angle lower in front and higher in back.. It really works great, try it.. It even seemed to increase the already good sustain my MSA has, likely due to less magnetic pull on the strings.... bob

[Donny Hinson]

Yes, it's true that the guitar itself plays a large role in the "sustain equation", and that a pickup won't do very much to increase sustain. That considered, I feel the amp, and how it's set, can make the biggest difference, by far in sustain. Simply put, you get that "forever sustain" by having enough amplitude available to keep raising the signal to the amp while it's dying down on the guitar. If you don't set the amp volume high enough, there simply isn't enough surplus power available at the volume pedal to keep things going.

Some time ago, a chart was posted that gave the amp settings for every major player at a past I.S.G.C. show, and I was not surprised in the least that Buddy's volume setting was twice as high as any other player. (And no, he didn't do that just to be louder. )

Turn the amp up, learn to really use the volume pedal properly, and any guitar has enough sustain.

[Jim Pitman]

Good point Donny. In fact a big component of steel guitar playing is learning to defeat the sustain.

[Alan Brookes]

Thanks Donny. That's something I hadn't thought of.

[Alan Berdoulay]

"Designing in sustain with good tuning stability seems to be illusive. That subject alone warrants a thesis. My theory is the neck/top must resonate a bit, or perhaps be tuned to a resonance favoring the range of tones you like and want to sustain (like the fundamental for a starter).
Some folks have experimented with the tightness of neck screws with favorable results."


.....not unlike a drummer with his heads.

[Ward Orsinger]

I guess I've had 14 MSA's....trying to make the great-built guitar sound great...went back to what I started with, been happy ever since! SHO BUD BRO!

[Paul Norman]

The amp has to be designed for steel.
The speaker has to move farther (like in a Bass speaker ) to get the sustain. The pre amp is also designed different. I cannot get a good sustain from my Twin Reverb. Nashville 1000, NV400, Nv112, Session 400 and 500. All these are especially designed for Pedal steel.

[Edward Rhea]

Does playing w/a heavier bar help w/sustain? I don't know, just saying, seems to make a little difference w/tone.

[Donny Hinson]

Yes, heavier bars can help somewhat, as can proper vibrato technique.

Paul, I can get great sustain from a Twin, or any of my Fender amps, none of which were designed for pedal steel. Also, I feel speakers and tone networks will affect the tone of an instrument, but not the sustain, because speakers are inherently inefficient. A speaker will always put out far less than what is put into it.

[Lane Gray]

I'm with Donny. I've not noticed that amps affect sustain. Unless you turn it down.
Heavier and harder bars contribute, but the guitar is the major element.

[Bill Duncan]

As for me, sustain and tone is very subjective and seems to change day to day. I have two guitars, a MSA and a Williams, and some days my MSA sounds best, some days the Williams. The MSA is a formica/plywood body, the Williams is not. I cannot tell if that makes a lot of difference though. Some days I hate both guitars!

The most agravating place I play is at home and I've learned to never base how the guitar will sound played out by the way it sounds at home. As a matter of fact my guitars sound different according to who I play with and their instruments.

Chasing tone and sustain will drive you to drink if you let it!

[Olli Haavisto]

On the subject of having the amp loud and using the volume pedal for sustain:
While humbucking pups don`t actually increase sustain (with a clean amp) they do give you a lot more usable signal before the hum drowns out the actual sound of the guitar. More usable signal for the volume pedal to push up, more apparent sustain.

[Bill Duncan]

I've never tried the LMB-3, it sounds somewhat like the Exciter pedals. However, as you say they are cheap enough to give a try without breaking the bank.