You mean you don't have one of these?

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 16 Sep 2000 4:35 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=434521659

Marc Weller · Post by **Marc Weller** » 16 Sep 2000 11:45 pm

Gang,

I didn't know there were any hillbillies in India.

MW

Bob Stone · Post by **Bob Stone** » 18 Sep 2000 6:50 am

Interesting!

About a hundred years ago (actually ca. 1967) I attended a concert by Indian students here at the University of FL. One of them played Indian 24-tone music on a little electric lap steel. His playing wasn't memorable.

Bet there is someone out there in Forumland who knows something about steel in India. Inquiring minds want to know!

Lynn Kasdorf · Post by **Lynn Kasdorf** » 18 Sep 2000 7:29 am

What a cool thing! Too bad it sold already...

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"You call that thing a guitar?"

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 18 Sep 2000 9:08 am

There are several great Indian steel players, but from what I've heard they are playing on acoustic steels. If you ever have the opportunity to check out Debashish Battacharya, do it! He sometimes tours with Bob Brozman. There is a fabulous album with him and Brozman that is difficult to get but well worth the effort, much better than Ry Cooder's collaborative album "Meeting By the River" with another great Indian steel player whose name escapes me at the moment. Check out www.bobbrozman.com for info on the Debashish Battacharya album.

Battacharya plays steel in a traditional East Indian setting with tabla. His playing is on a level with such Indian musicians as Ravi Shankar and Ali Akbar Khan. It's astounding, and unlike any steel you've ever heard.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 19 Sep 2000 7:58 am

The FORUM has a member that plays INDIAN music on his steel. I've gone thro' all of my older email and have yet to locate his name and all. He'd be a great source!

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 19 Sep 2000 8:02 am

Just FOUND it! His name is: Singh Surinder

His Email is:Surinder.singh@intel.com

Good Luck!

Sur Singh · Post by **Sur Singh** » 16 Oct 2000 5:49 pm

I am reading the forum after a long while (been busy & travelling and a little sick). Pleasantly surprised to know that I have suddenly become so popular on the forum!!!

Hawaiian guitar has been very popular in India for 4-5 decades. I have some old (1940 or 50's) Indian songs which have music pieces on hawiian guitars in them. (I have a friend who is writing an article for Brad's site explaining how Hawiian guitar became popular in India.) In the last decade or so, hawiian guitar has gained popularity in Indian Classical music also. The reason for the popularity is not difficult to understand: the hawiian guitar is ideally suited to play India music. It also mimics, probably better than a violin, the human voice as closely as an instrument can. Indian music, by the way, is not based on chords or harmony (Many notes at the same time), but is melody based (one note at a time). Also Indian classical music has lots glides between notes and also uses "half" notes that may not correspond to any key on a fixed-note instrument like a piano. All this makes the hawiian guitar immensely suited and immensely popular. I, for instance, actually have virtually no idea about chords; my teacher in India, almost 18 years ago, tought me Indian music on the hawiaan. Now I play my Oahu and Gibson on Indian scale!

The Indian hawiian guitarists can be roughly divided into two parts: those who play popular songs and those who play Indian classical music.

The first category players play popular songs, especially songs from Indian films (99.9% of Indian films are musicals!). Their cassettes sell well and are also used as filler music on the radio between programs. Their music is often with full western-style orchestra. Although this style of playing consists of reproducing the vocal film song, there is room to make subtle modifications to the tune in addition to the ample opportunities to show ones talent.

The second category consists of those who play (north) Indian Classical music on the hawiian guitars. Apart from Debashish Battacharya, there are other classical players (V.M. Bhatt, and Brij Bhushan Kabra). Except the instrument, everything about them and their music is classical: they will play classical raagas along with classical talaas (beats). While the popular guitarists almost always use electric guitars, the classical players use acoustic. I am not sure why, maybe the classical music needs softer sound; or maybe they don't need extra volume since Indian Classical is played without an orchestra, with very few instruments. They may make modifications to the guitar also; my friend Ian McLatchie from this forum was telling me about the modifications he saw on Bhatt's guitar. It seems to me that we will see more of these in the future since the names we know now are essentially the only the first generation. I mean "first generation" in the sense that they learnt Indian classical music on some other stringed instrument, then they picked up the hawiian guitar and transplanted the music to it. They are bound to have students whose primary instrument of learning Indian Classical music will be the hawiian guitar itself. (Like my instrument to learn popular Indian music was the hawiian.) As a person who likes Indian Classical music and loves hawiian guitar, I cannot be but happy about this.

In the popular category there are some very remarkable guitarists (along with some lousy ones too). They are very popular in India, almost by definition: they deal with pop (film) music. While I cannot claim any expertise in comparing, in my humble opinion they are actually better guitarists than the classical ones I have heard. Maybe I should post some recordings of these, if I could learn how to convert them to computer formats. Brad's Site of Steel has names of many such fine players who have done a lot to popularize this instrument.

-Surinder

PS: Those who are still curious can visit Brad's site; they are also welcome to email me with any questions about Indian Hawaiian/steel music or players at surinder@ieee.org or ask them on this forum.
[This message was edited by Surinder Singh on 16 October 2000 at 06:54 PM.]

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 17 Oct 2000 8:29 am

Surinder said:

"In the popular category there are some very remarkable guitarists (along with some lousy ones too)...While I cannot claim any expertise in comparing, in my humble opinion they are actually better guitarists than the classical ones I have heard."

My comment - I have seen and heard Debashish Battacharya play (Indian classical steel guitarist) and I would put him at the top of the list with the best guitarists I have ever had the opportunity to hear and see play (that list would include Joe Pass, Tuck Andress, John McLaughlin, Wes Montgomery among others).

So if these popular Indian steel guitarists are better than Battacharya, I MUST hear these guys. Please recommend a CD or two and a note where we can purchase them in the States.

Thanks

-Bill

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 17 Oct 2000 11:28 am

I have a CD of Ry Cooder and V. M. Bhatt. It's a very beautiful fusion of eastern and western music, recorded in a chapel in the wee hours of the morning. One of my favorites...

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 17 Oct 2000 12:23 pm

Thanks for the tip, Bob. I've got that Bhatt/Cooder CD and it is indeed a winner.

For another East/West fusion, I highly recommend Bob Brozman/Debashish Battacharya's "Sunrise - Delightful Meeting of Slide Guitars", which IMHO is an even more successful collaboration. Unfortunately, I don't think it is available anymore.

-Bill

Ian McLatchie · Post by **Ian McLatchie** » 17 Oct 2000 1:34 pm

Bill, Brad: With all respect, I think the Cooder "Meeting by the River" CD, like the other crossover albums V.M. Bhatt made with Jerry Douglas and Taj Mahal, is really not much more than slumming for him; it really doesn't even hint at what an astonishing musician he is on his own turf of Indian classical music. I've had the privilege to meet Bhatt a couple of times, and as unfailingly polite as he was in his comments about the Cooder album, it seemed pretty obvious that he regarded it just as an interesting diversion. He expressed real admiration for Douglas' playing, but frankly I don't think their collaboration is any more successful. Anyone who wants to hear the REAL Bhatt should check out some of the many albums he's put out on his own; any good Indian music store should have several. "Live: Pittsburgh, 1989" and "Song of [the]
Desert" are two I particularly like. Better yet, try to catch Bhatt live. He's one of the world's great virtuosi, and I'm really not exaggerating when I say that he and the other great Indian players have a mastery of intonation that truly makes even the finest Western players sound like amateurs by comparison.

To second what Bill says, Battacharya is another brilliant musician.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 17 Oct 2000 3:05 pm

Ian, my distributor doesn't carry either of those. I'd like to add one of his CDs to the Forum Catalog. Here are the ones that are available from the distributor:<ol>[*]Bihag/Desh (4/98)
[*]Gathering Rain Clouds (6/93)
[*]Guitar a La Hindustan (9/96)
[*]Music for Relaxation (5/95)
[*]Saradamani (4/93)
[*]Vol. 1 - Best of the Cord (7/99) [/list]Are you familiar with any of these recordings?

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 17 Oct 2000 3:21 pm

I have Saradamani and it's very good. I haven't heard the others you mentioned.

My favorite of the three I have (Saradamani,
Meeting by the River, and the Battacharya/Brozman "Sunrise" album) is the Battacharya/Brozman CD. It really delivers on the "delightful meeting of slide guitars" it's title promises.

By the way, a bit off topic, I am equally enthusiastic about the Brozman/Djeli Moussara project "Ocean Blues" (available from www.bobbrozman.com). This blends Brozman on slide and acoustic lap steel with a virtuoso Gambian kora (21 string harp) player/singer. The CD features traditional kora style, blues, Hawaiian-influenced tunes etc. It's a really fresh sound that even non-musician friends ask me about when they hear it.

"Ocean Blues" is my favorite album I've picked up this year. It's a joy to listen to.

-Bill
[This message was edited by Brad Bechtel on 17 October 2000 at 05:41 PM.]

Ian McLatchie · Post by **Ian McLatchie** » 17 Oct 2000 6:24 pm

Bobby: The only one of the albums you list that I have is Guitar a la Hindustan. A very good CD, if maybe just a notch below the others I listed. I haven't heard all that many of his classical albums, but I frankly can't imagine that any is less than sensational.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 17 Oct 2000 9:52 pm

A few years ago I saw an Indian guy playing what looked to me like a slide vina. I asked him about it and he said that it is an ancient instrument. He had a polished wooden slide. He also told me that the electric slide guitar is immensely popular in India and has replaced his instrument for the most part.

What I do is go to Indian general stores in NYC and just ask the guy at the counter if he has any film music that has slide guitar on it. I've gotten some wild music that way. The orchestral arrangements and synth sounds are way out there. Some truly amazing steel players also.

Bob

Sur Singh · Post by **Sur Singh** » 19 Oct 2000 9:28 am

What Bob, in the message above, mentions is correct. If you live near any large area where there are a lot of Indian immigrants, like Chicago, NYC, DC, LA, San Francisco, Vancouver BC, Toronto, you are bound to see a music shop with a lot Indian cassettes or CD's. Just go in and ask for "Hawiaan guitar film tunes". The name "Slide" or "Steel" may not mean a thing, "Hawiaan" is what we call our guitars in India. The cassettes should be pretty cheap (1-2 dollars). Players like Sunil Ganguly, Bhupinder are good; avoid Gautam Dasgupta, I think he seriously sucks.

-Surinder

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 19 Oct 2000 10:59 am

If you like your Indian film music with extra cheese Gautam Dasgupta is pretty cool.

Bob