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Topic: Why such large string gages? |
Roy Ayres
From:
Riverview, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 11 Jul 2003 6:09 pm |
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Between the time I left the music scene 42 years ago and returned to it just recently, many changes in steel guitars and the associated equipment and technology have evolved. Most of the changes are obvious improvements. But, there is one change for which I do not understand the reason: the heavier gages used on most steels today. When I was playing professionally, the first string was usually tuned to an E note, whether the tuning was E, E6, E9, A, A6, C6, C#min7 or almost any other tuning at that time – and that “little E” string was a 0.010 on most electric steels. I understand that now for the high G at the top of the C6 tuning many players are using a 0.012. I presently have a 0.010 on the first string (high G) of my C6 neck, and the string is very stiff due to the tension. I can’t imagine a 0.012 pulled up to a high G.
There must be some logical reason for the present-day use of larger string gages. Do they give more sustain? Do they produce a better attack? Is it because players like the stiff, solid feel and smaller gages feel mushy to them? Is the reason something that is subjective, or is it something that can be backed up by emperical data?
This probably has been discussed before, but if so I can’t find it. Would someone please either point me to previous threads or explain the reasons.
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Dr. Hugh Jeffreys
From:
Southaven, MS, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2003 6:47 pm
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| Roy - I previously used a 007 on top: Ab, but had to go heavier because a string that small (007) can't carry enough magnetism to be heard as the rest. The greater the tension, the less the "throw" (pull) on a pedal. Relate this to your Sp. guitar playing: the tighter the string, the less push necessary with your left hand fingers to get a bend. Same with steel. Also in fast playing single string work, all tensions need to be equal; if one string is "loose or spongy," it can really slow your down. We're looking forward to seeing you and Lauri down on the Coast in a coupla weeks. Best, Hugh |
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Roy Ayres
From:
Riverview, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 12 Jul 2003 4:19 am
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To Jack Stoner and Hugh Jeffreys: Thanks to both of you for the explanations.
Hugh, your Spanish guitar analogy posted above helped me see the relationship between throw and tension.
Jack, thanks for the email on the history of how the evolution of the standard gages came about through the work of Mr. Franklin -- and a special “thank you” for the string-gage charts.
It is a little difficult to compare the gages I use on my front neck with the standard gages, because I do not use the standard E9 chromatic tuning (as the two of you know, I use a E6/9). However, in comparing my gages the best I can with the charts, the gages I’m using are about 20% smaller than the recommended. I may change to larger gages the next time I change strings so I can make a subjective assessment of the “feel” and sound.
I just finished changing the pull rods on my back neck to accommodate the standard C6 tuning a week or so ago. For purpose of checking the basic pulls, I just threw on a mixed set of stings made up of whatever odds and ends I had around. I will pick up a set of the recommended C6 gages in the near future. |
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Carl West
From:
La Habra, CA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 12 Jul 2003 4:41 am
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Roy,
They sound better, the big fat chords sound better. Ain't that a good explaination ?
I thought you'd like it.
Carl West
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2003 3:51 pm
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Carl: You "splained" it good.  |
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Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
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Roy Ayres
From:
Riverview, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 13 Jul 2003 4:10 am
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Jody:
Haven't seen you much on the Forum lately; hope you and Marilyn are doing OK. Laurie and I still include both of you in our regular morning prayers.
Don't talk that way about Carl. At least he ain't ugly like some people I know.
I use the "old-school" gages on my front neck, but I have an "old-school" tuning on that neck -- so, I'll probably keep what I have always used. However, as I said above, I may put a set of the heavier gage on just to compare the feel and sound with what I have always used. I will wind up going with what I like without regard to the rest of the world. I don't particularly want to sound like everyone else anyway.
Regarding my back neck, I'm going to experiment with the standard C6 tuning and pedals in use these days -- so, I'll put a "Nashville-gage" set on for that purpose.
And, Carl, don't pay any attention to what Jody says about you. In addition to being ugly, he ain't too smart -- otherwise he wouldn't have opted out of that great company the three of us started with all of those fantastic products.
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Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
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Posted 13 Jul 2003 4:16 am
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Carl
Pay no attention to Roy,he's been wearin those heavy guage socks again and he's got athlete's foot and he's no athlete.
Roy ask Carl for a Cat,he has a litter of them,some are blonde and some sunburst and you ought to see the guage on the male he uses for a stud  |
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Carl West
From:
La Habra, CA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 13 Jul 2003 6:39 am
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Well you guys, Sorta early for me to comment. Hey, I listen to both of ya. With age comes knowledge and ya both have plent knowledge. Actually, I found that a set of Nashville gauge strings don't come packaged with Nashville sound.
Carl West
Emmons LaGrande with Emmons strings
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Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
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Posted 13 Jul 2003 12:57 pm
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Carl,I think I prefer this,,,Nashville sound?. NO...I'll take the WEST coast sound.
Thats the BEST sound around.. You are the
BEST OF THE WEST besides Speedy |
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Jody Carver
From:
KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED
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Posted 13 Jul 2003 6:58 pm
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Roy
I was as close as ever to you today. I played
through your old Fender Twin Reverb amp that
was sold to a friend of mine.
Great amp,but in need of some "Fender Loving Care" and Im sure Howard will see that it gets just that. And I will see to it that it does get the care it deserves.
Stay away from heavy guage strings,some speakers cant handle the extra load that those heavy guage strings put on them.
You remember when playing loud was not the norm,and players back then were sounding as good and if not better than those with these
power house amps.
I will guide Howard through making your Fender Twin as good as the day you played it
back years ago.
I sure hope you left some of your great playing in that amp. Old Fenders never die,they live forever in New York City.
New York City???????  |
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Roy Ayres
From:
Riverview, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 14 Jul 2003 10:11 pm
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Jody:
Thanks for the update on the amp. Sorry to take over 30 hours to get back to you. I spent most of the day in an oral surgeon's office and the rest of the day complaining about the pain and the price. It's 2:15 a.m. and keeping me awake, so why not do something productive like posting here?
From the above variety of posts there seems to be valid arguments both ways. I have always used lighter gages, but since most of the modern steel guitar world seems to like the larger gages, I feel that I have to give them a try. How could I make a subjective assessment if I don't compare them myself on my own axe?
Thanks to all of you guys for the input. |
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nick allen
From:
France
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Posted 15 Jul 2003 11:12 pm
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Just a couple of thoughts on this...
1) Doesn't it depend partly on the scale length you're using? An .010 may be reasonably tight tuned to G on a 26" scale, but if you've got a 22" scale, it's going to be pretty loose....
2) I know "modern" is a relative term, especially in this part of the Forum - but Herb Remington, for one, who is old enough to be Jody's son uses an .017 for his high E string, I believe... that's heavy metal!
Nick
P.S. Mr Ayres - I will have a "PeeWee King" question for you in a day or so...
P.P.S. Please stop picking on Jody's looks - if he stops posting here completely, it will be all your fault  (besides, I hear Robert Redford has optioned his forthcoming book, and plans to play Jody in the film version... of course, by the time it comes out, who knows what Redford will look like ) |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Jul 2003 7:49 pm
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Roy; You'd better not tell Jody about the chart I just sent to you, or he'll want it for sure, because; he's familiar with my sound!
------------------
“Big John” “Uh~” ƒƒ< wknsg®
Franklin, D–10 w/9 & 8
Fender, T–8 “The Custom”
Peavey, Classic 50 – 212 http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels
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Hey Carl...go feed your cat.