Vibrato?

Rick Tyson · Post by **Rick Tyson** » 9 Jul 2003 7:41 pm

Do we really need it

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 9 Jul 2003 8:06 pm

According to what Mr Charleton told me years ago. less is better, and most of it is a bad habit.

I'm sure I use too much..

EJL

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 9 Jul 2003 9:17 pm

Alvino Rey hardly ever used any vibrato....al

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Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 10 Jul 2003 4:28 am

Al:

Are you saying that if I quit using vibrato I will sound like Alvino?

Carl West · Post by **Carl West** » 10 Jul 2003 5:40 am

I agree with Eric. Time and place for it depending on what you use it for like effect only, otherwise, don't IMHO

Carl West

Carl West · Post by **Carl West** » 10 Jul 2003 5:41 am

Did Roy really say that ?

Carl West

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 10 Jul 2003 5:56 am

No vibrato

The guys who inspired Jerry B., Leon M., and Joaquin M. sure put it to good use.

Heres the "King" of vibrato playin' Tommy Dorsey's theme song ...

Andy Iona

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 10 Jul 2003 5:59 am

I have rarely met a beginning player who didn't try to OVERUSE vibrato, both too OFTEN and too WIDE. In my observation, it is a sign of an inexperienced player to misuse vibrato and sound nervous or inaccurate.

I encourage students not to begin vibrato until at least half of the note length has passed. If it's a whole note, don't start 'wiggling' until at least a half note's duration has gone by, start slowly and gently, and don't oscillate faster than the tempo of the song. Judiciously applied vibrato can make a slow song much more pleasant sounding, but poorly applied, it can make the performance sound amateurish.

I have seen great players slide and roll the bar and I sometimes do it both ways. Unless string noise is a serious problem when sliding the bar for vibrato, either will work fine.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Tony LaCroix · Post by **Tony LaCroix** » 10 Jul 2003 6:18 am

Thanks for another bit of great advice, Larry. The first time I picked up a bar, I set it on the strings and started wiggling. Maybe it's 6-stingers who do this, since our left hands feel left out of the action when we switch to steel?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 10 Jul 2003 6:55 am

I find that some vibrato will help to increase sustain. I use it after the note starts to die out to make it ring longer.
Erv

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Jul 2003 7:07 am

I use very little. Like a chorus, it does help a little with intonation problems, but can rapidly be overdone. It also help to sustain the note, probably by expanding the overtones. Some players do use too much, and a very few use none at all.

Like Ben Franklin said..."Moderation in all things"

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 Jul 2003 7:52 am

The ability to use vibrato liberally is one of the distinguishing aspects of the steel guitar. It is indispensible. Like orchestral strings and horns we have the ability to make the strings sing with vibrato like the human voice. This expresses emotion and also helps ameliorate (howzat, Bill Hanky?) ET intonation problems.

The amount, speed and intensity of vibrato varies greatly in different styles of music. Swing and fast country don't want much, ballads wouldn't be the same without it. Blues vibrato is faster and tighter. Since I started with slide guitar blues, it was very difficult for me to get a slower and longer vibrato for country. That Andy Iona clip Rick posted above shows how vibrato changes with the different eras of music. Andy's vibrato is a bit much for today, but would be right at home alongside the other "kings of vibrato", Guy Lombardo's sax section.

Vibrato is one of the unrecognized difficulties of the instrument for beginners, as is an even use of the volume pedal. There is a lot of personal taste involved. However, like everything else in music, when it is done well by the masters it can be wonderful.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 10 Jul 2003 8:21 am

I think you have to experiment with both subtle and wide, and fast and slow vibrato to find what works in a given tune and style. A "Spongebob Squarepants" gig might need a more pronounced vibrato than a country gig. Speedy West had quite a spiffy vibrato, and the energy level he projected through his playing is still unmatched, in my opinion. I regularly practice up to a wholetone (2 fret) vibrato to strengthen my hand, but I can't imagine using it on a tune, unless it was some sort of novelty tune. Watch for excess caffeine.

Rick Tyson · Post by **Rick Tyson** » 10 Jul 2003 9:41 am

The reason I brought up the question of vibrato is , I believe good vibrato is an art into itself. I mean every steeler is told to add vibrato to every note (good or bad) of which most is , well lets just say its there

.
Good vibrato is a great addition to the instruments sound and players technique.
Bad vibrato is an addictive bad technique that can take years to break

Have you ever been on stage waiting for your steel break and watched as your bar hand is performing vibrato for the up comming break?

It seems every time my bar touches the strings ,even with the amp off, its doing vibrato on its own.

Well since I do not have a great vibrato technique, I am training myself to disregard vibrato and control it, and believe me after 30 years of vibrato on every note ,its almost impossible

but I will master it !!

Vibrato above the 15th fret is a challange for me and maintain good notation at the same time. As I am always pushing myself to do greater things out of my ability, I tried to perform three or four songs all from the 15th fret up. With good control and no vibrato ,I can do it

Bad vibrato above the 15th fret is somthing you dont want to hear

and I was doing it.

TW uses little if any Vibrato at all and thats enough for me

So I guess like the great ones say ,Less is better sometimes and in this case, less is better for me.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 10 Jul 2003 10:21 am

If you want a priceless lesson in vibrato, listen to John Hughey and Buddy Emmons. John is a 'slider' and Buddy is a 'roller' and both are about as smooth and perfect in their application of vibrato to add feeling to a performance as anyone I can think of.

Learn a short section of "Danny Boy" or "Look at Us" or any of the multitude of slow songs these masterful players have recorded. Record it yourself and play it back and compare to the original. You'll learn real fast how primitive and clumsy most players' vibrato sounds compared to ones who've gotten it right through decades of experience.

As others have mentioned, there are other applications of vibrato: Paul's 'bar shiver', the SpongeBob thing, and others, but all that stuff will come much more easily if you first learn to apply vibrato tastefully to ballads.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Mark Tomeo · Post by **Mark Tomeo** » 10 Jul 2003 11:18 am

I've been reviewing the Jay Dee Maness video and noticed something that I'm now trying to incorporate into my own playing. At point after point, you see Jay Dee sliding to a position and letting it ring for a second or two, and only then rolling the bar for some vibrato as the notes decay. He doesn't slide and shake, he slides, waits, then shakes it a bit. It makes for cleaner, more "professional" sounding articulation. Jay Dee doesn't discuss the technique but you can see it's a consistant part of his playing. Less is definitely more when it comes to the big V.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 10 Jul 2003 11:31 am

Larry Bell, David Doggett, Rick Tyson, all good posts on vibrato.

I believe Vibrato is imnportant to the steel guitar. But usually less is better.

When I used to play swing and Jazz, I almost never used vibrato
.
I used the Roll on Ballads, Hawaiian tunes and the wiggle on some faster tunes. Otherwise none.

Roy, there is only ONE Alvino Rey. He has been there and done that and did it HIS way.
And still recording at age 95, the last I heard.

Maybe some of us older Players can get some inspiration from that. ......al

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[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 10 July 2003 at 12:41 PM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 10 Jul 2003 12:05 pm

Thanx Guys !

the Vibrato is'nt often discussed here on the Fo'rum
there's gold is these hills !
so far i know how to slide
but now i gotta get rollin'
en Finesse please
Hasta Lluego

Jeff Coffell · Post by **Jeff Coffell** » 10 Jul 2003 4:38 pm

Jeff Newman swears that the vibrato is the life of the steel and I agree with him totally.

Jeff C.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 10 Jul 2003 4:39 pm

There is no more subjective thing than "vibrato" when it comes to the steel guitar. There are many ways to do it and very few do it identical to any other.

It can take away from the music as much as it can embelish the music depending on how it is done.

I personally have never seen ANY reason for the nervous twitch type of vibrato. But that is just me. Since soooo many have done it and are doing it, I can only assume some like it.

The vibratos I envy are Jerry Byrd and Buddy Emmons of course. Since these two are absolutes in their genre', part of their greatness manifests itself in their incredible vibratos. And what I have noticed is neither of them use the same vibrato for all forms of music they play. IE, they tailor it to suit.

Which is probably the best, but also may be the hardest to adopt. I have seen JB have a wide vibrato on some songs and a barely perceptible one on others. In each case it was a plus to that tune. Same for BE.

There are others too. What I have found in teaching students is; not to force it. But let it come naturally as one changes from an initial "mechanical" type player to becoming a real musician where feeling is more important as one matures in both dexterity and ear training.

Newcomers have enough to worry about at first. So I let vibrato be one of those things that is low priority until later on in the game.

carl

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 17 Jul 2003 1:22 pm

Buddy E
Could we get your opinion on this? I feel I hear a lot on your playing and it wouldn't sound like you without it.

Bob

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 17 Jul 2003 2:50 pm

I've noticed when watching blues bottleneck players that they use a very wide vibrato. I've since added the wide vibrato effect to my playing style for occassional use in that kind of music.

Early on, I purged myself of the vibrato instinct after seeing Jeff Newman play. Jeff can really nail the bar to the strings, and sound in tune doing it! I envied that technique.

Too often vibrato is used to cover an out-of-tune guitar. It's better to get in tune, and then use vibrato for expression when appropriate.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Wayne Franco · Post by **Wayne Franco** » 18 Jul 2003 10:27 am

I try and listen to the symbles and use that as my point of reference to the speed of the vibrato. If you do it right you don't hear an obvious vibrato sound since it is in rythum with the song, yet the sustain is there.

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 18 Jul 2003 10:51 am

Vibrato is just one of many options we have in the "expression tool box". It is a choice. You don't have to use it. However, if used properly as an expression it can enhance your sound. Most all instruments and the human voice can benefit from vibrato (or not) maybe with the exception of the sitar! Everytime I hear Alison Krauss sing I am amazed at her style. Absolutely no vibrato in her voice yet it sounds so beautiful!

Vibrato - your choice.

(don't they have a knob on Fender Twins for that!?)

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Terry Edwards
Fessy D-10; Nash 1000
Martin D-21; Flatiron F-5

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 18 Jul 2003 3:09 pm

I tend to like vocal harmonies that have little or no vibrato. This seems to make the impact more incisive. It seems like this would also apply to steel, when an intervallic relationship is particularly important to emphasize.