ZB Pedal Steel Guitars - Please help!

John Sassano · Post by **John Sassano** » 21 Aug 2013 2:28 pm

Russ Tkac wrote:So true Chuck ... and it sounds pretty darn good too. :

Check out this video from 1969 of POCO live. Looks like Rusty young is playing old #1056.

http://youtu.be/LqmJESFg7tA

Very cool Russ! Thanks it sure looks similar!
John

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 21 Aug 2013 2:58 pm

You have a sweet steel there John. It went through Chuck's hands too.

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 22 Aug 2013 1:02 pm

Now THAT is one pretty ZB, Russ. Have a beautiful northern night, my friend.
Duncan

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 22 Aug 2013 2:46 pm

Duncan! Good to see you here. I've been busy but getting back to playing some. The ZB bug just keeps after me.

John Sassano · Post by **John Sassano** » 14 Sep 2013 9:10 am

Hi all I figured this is a good place to seek help. I'm having trouble with my RKL E to Eb lever. My high E drops sharp no matter what adjustment I make to the lower changer Allen screw. I'm not sure where to start.
John

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 14 Sep 2013 10:56 am

Screwing the tuning bolt (green arrow) in should stop the travel of the finger, if it doesn't perhaps the threads are stripped

John Sassano · Post by **John Sassano** » 14 Sep 2013 11:17 am

Thanks Richard! No matter how far out I unscrew it its still sharp but if I turn it tight it sharpens further.

Bob Mainwaring · Post by **Bob Mainwaring** » 14 Sep 2013 12:12 pm

Just a little thing that you might want to try John...did you ever lube the mechanics at all.
I lube mine on a regular basis and the returns seem to be O.K. Just a small amount of lube is required on anything that moves, plus it will make those parts last longer.

All Z.B.est.

Bob Mainwaring.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 14 Sep 2013 1:45 pm

This is the first step in solving this problem. 3 in 1 oil on everything that moves underneath. Also take the roller nuts out, clean and lube the axle. This is a very common problem on the 4th string. Lube the cross rod ends where they go into the cross rod holder also.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 14 Sep 2013 8:15 pm

John, sounds to me like your E to F raise rod is interferring with your lower. There is a little collar on the rod on the changer that may have slipped and not letting your lower go all the way. You did say it was still sharp when lowered? That was a problem I was having with my ZB.

Josh Rossow · Post by **Josh Rossow** » 15 Sep 2013 12:34 am

Hey John, I had a similar issue and I switched out the tuning nut that was gettin hung up and it fixed the problem.
Josh

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 15 Sep 2013 2:23 am

This is hysteris. You can get most of it out by lubing parts, but the main fix is a return spring adjustment. Back off the return spring after lubing until there's no return than slowly adjust two turns at a time until the string returns true. This is partly a product of the finger design. I've seen ZB's that were impossible to get it totally out. The new ones don't have this problem.

John Sassano · Post by **John Sassano** » 15 Sep 2013 8:52 am

I really appreciate the input from all of you! Thanks. It is close now and I have some more experimenting to do!
John

Matt Sutton · Post by **Matt Sutton** » 15 Sep 2013 1:17 pm

Hi all,
Been playing and tweaking #1008 for a couple months and still love it, for all of its quirkiness. I've got more of a feel for the mechanics now, so feel ready to go to work on the larger problems.
First: I need to switch the E9 neck from Day to Emmons. Shouldn't be to big a deal; the trees are there so I'll just need new rods. Presently, the A pedal's 5th string raise is piggy-backed onto the C pedal's tree, with the rod terminating there instead of the changer. It works, but doesn't feel right. I assume that that was a shortcut someone took, perhaps switching from Emmons to Day?
Second: On the C6 neck, it seems like a lot of changes were removed, with none between the 6th and 10th string. here's the current copedant:

Not sure what happened here, but I'd love to have those lower changes. I'm thinking rods and trees will be the easy parts; its the part that goes from the changer to the end plate. Don't even know what it's called! Or, where I could find them. I'll likely need several to have anything like a standard C6 copedant.
Here's picture of the full undercarriage:

and a close-up of the C6 changer, which looks quite different from most that I've seen.

So, yep, I've got my work cut out for me. Any insight, advice, scolding... all welcomed.

best,

Matt

admin · Post by **b0b** » 15 Sep 2013 3:44 pm

Matt Sutton wrote:

Pedals 6 and 7 are okay. To get started:

1. move the rod on pedal 5 to lower the 5th string G to F#

2. move the rod on pedal 8 to raise the 7th string C to C#.

At that point, you'll have the standard changes on the top 7 strings.

Matt Sutton · Post by **Matt Sutton** » 16 Sep 2013 7:27 am

Thanks Bobby,
very interesting, and this uses the pedals that felt most like dead-end changes. Can't wait to try it.

best,

Matt

admin · Post by **b0b** » 17 Sep 2013 2:36 pm

The next change to add would be lowering the 3rd string C to B on your RKR lever. You'll need a few more parts to do that, but it shouldn't be too hard to rig up.

Matt Sutton · Post by **Matt Sutton** » 18 Sep 2013 7:55 am

That sounds like a good one. I'll need to find/fabricate some of these:

along with some rods, turnbuckles, and trees. Looks like I may have a metalworking class in my future....

I applied those changes you posted earlier, and love em. After 15 years on a very rudimentary E9, the C6 is a complete blast. Disorienting in the best way, really.
Thanks for the tip!

Matt

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 22 Sep 2013 1:34 am

Here is a ZB student I have just finished rebuilding
Great little guitar, plays as sweet as a nut and sounds great,IMHO one of the best student steel ever built.

Face lift on this little gem

.

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 30 Sep 2013 12:48 pm

Attention ZB shoppers--blue (and natural)-light special on For Sale: Steel Guitars aisle:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 64#2146264

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 2 Oct 2013 4:55 am

Let's discuss why Zane and Tom's guitars are so good. My interest is primarily in the early scranton models. Is it the choice of wood. The changer?
The overall package I know is a part of it. Tell me what you think.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 2 Oct 2013 5:35 am

Chuck, I think it is the sum of all things that go into the making of a guitar. That said, I also think that the pickup and the fact that ZB's have body contact (metal to metal)changers are the biggest percentage of the tone with all other things factored in. My ZB is not the Scranton model (Waco I Think) but it still has that ZB tone even after I changed the whole thing to a bell crank configuration. I did some recordings of before and after I did the conversion and there was no difference that my ear could detect. That's why I think the pickup and the changer are the biggest part of the sound.

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 3 Oct 2013 4:56 am

Henry I can't agree more. It's like a push pull with body contact and that triple tap pickup is the key. i won't look at a ZB without the pup.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 3 Oct 2013 11:59 am

Henry your assessment is not quite correct. I build ZB's. The major factor is in the materials and design of the guitar. I will say that SOME of the changer design also. Not the metal to metal contact. If this was true open notes would sound different from pedal notes, which they do not. The pickup adds also. Whether it's triple or single tap makes no difference.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 3 Oct 2013 1:44 pm

Kevin, I thought that way once but I think the viberations come from the whole changer, not nessecarly the string that is being pulled so therefore at least 6 to eight strings are touching the changer at all time. I see your point and well taken. This is just my view but not being a builder and don't know for sure. I know you are right on when you say the materials and design of the guitar are what makes up the tone or sound. I still think pickups and changer make big percenatage of the sound.
I took probably 10 lbs of cross bars and other stuff out from under the old ZB and replaced with aluminum bell crank design and the tone didn't change one iota. I did keep the orginal pickups and changer.
I have seen a ZB you built and really nice guitar.

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ZB Pedal Steel Guitars - Please help!

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