Push-Pull 4th/8th string lower not returning, 6th string out

Zachary Moulton · Post by **Zachary Moulton** » 17 Sep 2013 9:18 am

I've had this Emmons, since January. Now I'm having my first problems. My E lowers aren't returning, well. I'm assuming it's been slowly creeping on, just not as noticeable, til now. Do I just tighten the return spring? It seems obvious, but this is my first time to work on this thing. I don't wanna screw everything up. And, if I tighten them, can i just tighten the hell out if it, or will that throw out something else? Also, my 6th string is getting outta tune, raised and open. I tune it up and its fine. Then, a few songs in, it just goes out. I look at it and everything is fine. Its not hanging up on other rods or anything. I just want some feedback before I start working on this beast. Thanks

Zachary

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 17 Sep 2013 9:28 am

Zachary first of all download the wilderness guide to a push-pull at the top of the steel guitar page. It will help you a lot. One of the things it stresses is that your changer has to be in tune. Also a push pull is not a guitar that everything is tightly adjusted on. There has to be some slop on changes that raise and lower. If you have had the guitar since January and haven't changed strings yet,that could be all that is wrong. Start there first and then check your changer tuning like the guide shows . I am guessing that your strings were old and causing the problem. Most push-pulls once they are in tune stay that way for the most part. One other thing is that if you broke a string and didn't put the same gauge on or changed strings and the gauges were different it could cause fits.

Eric Philippsen · Post by **Eric Philippsen** » 17 Sep 2013 3:58 pm

What Craig said.........I totally agree.

Change your strings first before you go trying to tackle anything under the hood. The solution couldbe as simple as that.

I don't know how to tactfully say this, but one can really mess things up by trying to adjust a push-pull without a very good understanding of how the whole system works. I know I screwed up my first push-pull 25 years ago because I looked at the undercarriage and said, "Oh, this is easy." Wrong.

Getting a book or video on how the steel works is a great idea, too. Even better, see if there's someone within a 1/2 day's travel who knows how to work on them. You can watch and learn as he does it.

Zachary Moulton · Post by **Zachary Moulton** » 18 Sep 2013 6:56 am

I change my strings, at least, once a month. But, they were due for a change. I went ahead and tightened the two return springs on the 4th/8th strings. Fixed the problem. The 6th string was fine all day. I put a new set of strings on, and while putting on the 10th string, the peg that holds the string broke off. FML. Guess I'll just JB Weld something else in its place. Luckily, I've got my old Marlen, to use while I'm fixing the Emmons.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 18 Sep 2013 2:00 pm

Sounds to me like your E raises are interferring with your E lowers. I can do it but can't explain. They have to be timeed just right. If the E raise doesn't have enough slack, then your lowers won't lower all the way. You can visually look at the guitar upside down and if the changer is in tune, then when you lower E's, they should lower all way to tuning screw and return back to cabinet when released. If not, raise linkage is to tight.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 18 Sep 2013 3:04 pm

On a push-pull you must make certain that every string is properly centered on its changer finger. Changing strings or putting the guitar in its case can bump them, if they are not centered they will pull the finger sideways and cause it to bind. You can break a return spring and screw up your tuning real good trying to fix that one if you don't check it first...

Zachary Moulton · Post by **Zachary Moulton** » 18 Sep 2013 3:28 pm

The Es were just barely flat when they returned. When I raised them, they would return back in tune. The only question that I have now, is what should I use for the peg that holds the string to the finger?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 18 Sep 2013 3:41 pm

The two solutions that spring to my mind are (bear in mind I'm neither a machinist nor metalworker):
Take finger with broken pin (and a good one, as a reference) to a machine shop, say "pull the broken pin and replace it, please?", or;
Buy replacement finger.
Or, if you have drill press and stout vise, drill a hole and press in a similar pin.
Next time, make sure the ball is up against the finger. Usually they only break if the string is out near the end.

Zachary Moulton · Post by **Zachary Moulton** » 18 Sep 2013 5:12 pm

I think the pin that broke off, was a repair, to begin with. I was hoping I could fix it without taking anything apart.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 18 Sep 2013 5:29 pm

That fix will be fun on a push-pull

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 18 Sep 2013 5:58 pm

Zachary Moulton wrote:I think the pin that broke off, was a repair, to begin with. I was hoping I could fix it without taking anything apart.

Take the whole guitar to a machine shop?
I'm mostly joking. I bet that if you did, they'd tell you to take it home and just bring the parts.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 18 Sep 2013 6:10 pm

I sheared off a 10th string E9th changer pin about 5 years ago. Fellow forumite, Harley James and I drilled a hole just below the original and pressed in a roll pin without any disassembly. It worked perfectly for a coule of years. I ultimately replaced the finger when I did a total rebuild on the guitar, for cosmetic reasons.

Zachary Moulton · Post by **Zachary Moulton** » 19 Sep 2013 9:23 pm

Roll pin, got it. Thanks, Tony. By the way, I played on a Sierra, tonight. My first time playing an all-pull. Sounded amazing. This changes everything, for me.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 20 Sep 2013 6:17 am

Zachary Moulton wrote:Roll pin, got it. Thanks, Tony. By the way, I played on a Sierra, tonight. My first time playing an all-pull. Sounded amazing. This changes everything, for me.

That's interesting. I worked at Sierra for about 4-5 years yet always played a push-pull, (much to the consternation of the owner, Don C.). In those days, "tone trumped all else".