The future of the steel

[Joseph Napolitano]

I agree with Richard.Sirius/XM's new country station has pedal steel on almost every song.I know some of it is pop/rock but it still has steel.

[Ken Metcalf]

The future of country music and steel guitar is fairly obvious.. Right ? The future will not be the past.
The future will be the future .. a blend of rock and country.
There is still plenty of good new country out there if you look for it.

[David Mason]

I heard St.Louis only had about 300 people attend this year. It's not looking good for pedal steel players.

- Theresa Galbraith

I think this is exactly what some of us are alluding to - maybe you could amend it to -

It's not looking good for over 55=year-old pedal steel players who believe that country steel of the 50's, 60's and 70's is what needs to return.

That I can agree with! The steel shows seem to be all about the past of the steel guitar, not the future. Some time back b0b figured out the average age of the forum members - I seem to recall it was 55? It might be an impossible figure to get, but it would nice to contrast that number with the average age of touring musicians. And "touring musicians" is where you're going to find the young steelers, not at a steel show.

And in the decade or so I've been reading this forum, there have been at least ten new manufacturers of steels pop up, with only a few ceasing production. And three or four new shops have opened up, it's hard to figure as there's quite a few "dealers" who don't have a "brick and mortar" outlet. I have never seen a "going out of business" or "fire sale" - even though there have been a few fires!

In fishing through the magnificent "Different Styles" thread:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=208507

Just about every type of music imaginable is being played on steel guitar, except maybe rap and opera (darn it, right? ) And whether a large portion of that music is not to one's tastes, there is one unifying characteristic that trundles through a large majority of it. And that is:

The steel guitar is integral to the construction of the music.

The type of music wherein a pedal steel player can get by with just solos, pads and fills is dying, sure - but these darn kids are writing on the steel, by the steel, and for the steel. And that right there is the future of the steel - not just pleasant sounds tacked onto an extant song, but steel guitar as the alpha doggie! And it ain't coming from here. If there's any trend that's being recycled, I think you could point to three guys: Steve Howe with YES, David Gilmour with Pink Floyd, and David Lindley (gets around ). Yes, they were all known for lap or console steel, but let's be frank: lap steel IS the gateway drug for a full-blown PSG addiction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40QYPUwr ... 3EA1196B31
(By the way, this entire suite was written and arranged by the steel guitarist....)


count 'em - what do they know that we don't?
http://b0b.com/wp/?page_id=121

[Curt Trisko]

I agree with what Richard said. The only time I listen to modern country music is when I'm flipping through the stations in my car, but I still hear quite a bit of steel in it. It's just not "in your face" like in the past. Also, sometimes the licks are painfully simple.

I think pedal steel is more demanding of the listener and let's face it, your average country music fan has become less musically sophisticated. It seems like the country music industry doesn't make much music for music lovers anymore.

But back to my point, pedal steel isn't dying, it's just doesn't have as much of a flashy role as in the past. To be honest, I listen to some of the old stuff and wonder why they allowed the steel to be so flamboyant.

[Alan Berdoulay]

" lap steel IS the gateway drug for a full-blown PSG "

We should be putting lap steels in kids hands just like we do guitars. They're affordable and easy enough to get music out of at an early age. Not unlike the uke.
Kids are the future. Sow seeds.

[Curt Trisko]

I was at a small house party last night and brought my steel guitar with so that I could start getting used to playing in front of small groups of people. I think most of the people there were at least a little fascinated by the instrument. When I told them to go ahead and sit behind it and mess around, I think they were pretty intimidated. I just have a Stage One, but some of the people were taking a "too nice to touch" attitude towards it.

[Mike Perlowin]

Recently I went to see one of our members play at a local watering hole, where there there were 4 new and young bands on the bill, each playing one set.

Besides our fellow forumite, there were at least 2 steel players there. Newer, younger players, who were not members of the forum.

Doug Livingston and Bruce Lofgren had a gig that night, so our forumite and I split after his set, so we could catch their gig. I didn't get to see whether or not the 4th band had a steel player.

But in my opinion, the fact that at least 3 of these new bands, whose members appeared to be in their 20s and 30s, had steel players, is a good sign.

[Theresa Galbraith]

Mike,
I don't know, not many young ones showing up at Scotty's. If they don't show up there, pedal steel must be dead.

[Clyde Mattocks]

Teresa, you can't judge it by Scotty's attendance. I am a full time player and I've never been to Scotty's, although I have wanted to. I've always had gigs plus it is expensive to travel that distance and stay. I know quite a few young players who are not forum members, in fact I know MORE who are not members than are. Like a situation pointed by Mike P., I frequently play at the Pour House in Raleigh which is a multi format club that has a lot of alt country. Just two weeks ago, there were three bands on the bill, all featuring steel.

[Wally Moyers]

I played 3 services at Hillside Christian Church this morning. http://hillsidewired.com All of the band members are in their 20s and all are great players. I'v done this several times and it's always a great experience. They play the new praise music and love how steel fits the music. I overheard a conversation they were having about how they believe that steel will be huge in Christian music. The guitar player really wants to learn to play so I'll be helping him get started. A lot of the guitar parts they play sound very steel-like, very interesting music... Oh, it paid $100.00 with no drunks or smoke:)

[Aaron Smith]

Sorry David I wasn't trying to be negative at all and I do apologize for the misinterpretation in my failed attempt to get my point across with words. Perhaps we just get too emotional and passionate about what we love, sometimes? or maybe I am just a loudmouth jackass? Just trying to get my 2 cents in here on this great thread you started...
I'll try this again, I see that steel guitar is in a real good place right now and that if we, as players, can take it even more outside the box of old country and outdated standards then maybe there would be more of a demand from listeners that would seek out the source of that sound...then the builders would have to follow suit with the entry level guitars and such. Is that negative?

[David Anderson]

I agree Aaron! I love old country and honky tonk, and love to play it, but I also love using it in original music, too! There is a really cool original scene here in town and I am lucky to be a part of it. I get quite a bit of work playing with bands on stage and in the studio. There is a growing number of steel players here as well and I am picking up new students slowly but surely.

My original intent was to start a dialogue about the access to affordable steels and getting the information to players that want to learn. Ways to help newbees understand the relationship of the instrument musically to other stringed instruments. It can be a bit intimidating and overwhelming to start researching what steel to get and how to start, or even tune.

[John RJ Wilson]

I was not sure whether to buy into this thread or not. I am here because of one person David Gilmour. I am learning lapsteel because of him. I am too old to make any impact on anything, and have no intention of getting involved in pedal steel. But I can see some things which might be valid observation. Firstly the my favourite thread on this forum is the different styles thread. I think it it imperative that the old songs and the greats are not forgotten. I think that threads that are titled "is the steel playing standard falling" or words to that effect smacks of snobbery, and if I was a youngster I would reckon I wasted my $5 and would be off elsewhere.
The obsession with C6th and E9th takes tone back to older styles and is not a tone I will be wanting. There is a need to get into other tunings That A is the culprit. Players need to get away from the little transister amp seat, with bottom end effects pedals and get Humbuckers and active EMGs into there laps and consoles, then input into big valve amps and 2 and 4x12s. Now there are many folks on here who have done this, and I realise that the pedals on a PSG are a big enough problem without trying to activate a board full of boutique guitar pedals. One further thing is somebody needs to write a decent contemporay music tutor and video lessons. for lap and pedal.One that uses different tunings from the start. "Must learn the correct techniques" is said over and over, but let folks develop their own playing style. I know only 6 lap steel players, all of them are Pink Floyd players and only play lapsteel because of this, I know nobody that plays pedal steel in that community, but I do know many guitarists who just slip a slide on and play the parts.
One point I read further back related the price of a pedal steel to ipads and trainers. From my experiences watching youngsters play as I watched my son grow as a musician and guitarist. The trainers and car wheel group are in no way connected to young guitarists in any way, different lifestyle different kids so not valid,
What I want to know is. saxaphone, trumpet, guitar, piano etc all developed as musical styles changed. What happened to lap and pedal, why did it not move with the mainstream?
One last point before the pitch forks come out. One other reason that the kids are not buying in is this. You can't take a pedal steel to a party, woo a girl and get laid like you can with an acoustic.

[Gene Jones]

Speaking from a half century of experience, the steel player in a band may not have always been on the radar for most audiences, but they have always been the target of predator females who wanted a band members notch on their gun.

The steel player has been historically viewed as a rebel, detached or above whatever was going on, and was considered to be the most approachable band member.

While the "star" was marketing his latest recording to mostly deaf ears, the steel player was being solicited and entertained by a covey of an adoring public, mostly females.
\
So, who are the professionsl steel players who think they have been forgotten?

[Ron Page]

Much has been written here about the price of steel guitars. When you consider top quality pianos, fiddles, drums, etc., it's not all that bad. Cost is not the primary barrier to entry into this dark netherworld.

[Mike Perlowin]

Speaking from a half century of experience, the steel player in a band may not have always been on the radar for most audiences, but they have always been the target of predator females who wanted a band members notch on their gun.

While the "star" was marketing his latest recording to mostly deaf ears, the steel player was being solicited and entertained by a covey of... adoring... females.

How come this never happened to me?

[Mike Perlowin]

I am learning lapsteel

Lap steel and pedal steel are different instruments.Things that apply to one often don't apply to the other.

The obsession with C6th and E9th takes tone back to older styles and is not a tone I will be wanting. There is a need to get into other tunings. That A is the culprit.

WRONG!!!! The tunings are not a problem. The guys who figured them out got it right. The E9 tuning can be used to play any type of music. I play both classical music and rock and blues on it. The only limitations are those of those players who do not explore possibilities.

Players need to get away from the little transister amp seat, with bottom end effects pedals and get Humbuckers and active EMGs

Been there, done that. I have active EMG's in one of my 6 strings, and I like them. but when I tried one on my steel I was not pleased with the result.

Many of us (including me) use humbuckers.

...then input into big valve amps and 2 and 4x12s.

I'll make a deal with you. I'll get a pair of Marshall stacks if you'll carry them around for me.

I realize that the pedals on a PSG are a big enough problem without trying to activate a board full of boutique guitar pedals.

Wrong again. Many of us, including me use effects pedals.

One further thing is somebody needs to write a decent contemporay music tutor and video lessons. for lap and pedal.One that uses different tunings from the start.

ABSOLUTELY AS WRONG AS POSSIBLE, at least as far as pedal steel is concerned. As I said earlier, the guys who figured out the tunings got it right.

"Must learn the correct techniques" is said over and over, but let folks develop their own playing style.

It's true that players should develop their own style of playing, but one needs to have a good technique in order to do that.

I encourage everybody to experiment with new styles and and look at music from new genres. But you need to learn how to command and control the instrument, and things like blocking (both palm and pick blocking,) chiming, proper vibrato technique, etc are essential skills you need to be able to express yourself.

I don't think anybody who does not play the pedal steel guitar can possible understand the possibilities inherent in the tunings, and is not in a position to critique them.

[Dave Grafe]

Quote:
The obsession with C6th and E9th takes tone back to older styles and is not a tone I will be wanting. There is a need to get into other tunings. That A is the culprit.


WRONG!!!! The tunings are not a problem. The guys who figured them out got it right. The E9 tuning can be used to play any type of music. I play both classical music and rock and blues on it. The only limitations are those of those players who do not explore possibilities....

Everything Mike P said. Everything. Just because you haven't figured out how it works does not mean it needs you to fix it.

Like we told our kids, if your mind is made up to break the law, then be certain to first understand what the law is and why, so that you may then break it intelligently and constructively.

[Donny Hinson]

WRONG!!!! The tunings are not a problem. The guys who figured them out got it right. The E9 tuning can be used to play any type of music. I play both classical music and rock and blues on it. The only limitations are those of those players who do not explore possibilities.

True, true. Stop blaming the equipment for what you can't do, guys. There's always some doofus that thinks "If I just had one more pedal, lever, gizmo, or chord, I could do so much more". Bullhockey! Learn to play, and get off the "That really sounds neat, I love that change or chord" merry-go-round.

Nothing sounds more ridiculous than a pedal steeler whining about "I need more changes". When you can play as good as Jerry Douglas does using only 6 strings with no pedals or levers, then you have a license to whine about needing more strings, levers, and pedals! Until then, it might be best to just learn to really use what you already have.

[John RJ Wilson]

Mike and Dave refreshingly frank replies. Bit dissapointed with all the "wrongs", just because you do not agree with something does not mean they are wrong.
I wrote this as somebody from outside,looking at what might put youngters off from learning, and thus threatening the future of Steel guitar, and the sound could be a contributory factor.
Mike we are clearly closer on this than you might think.
I quote.
The rock band was called the Fickle Pigs, Steve Howden, the lead singer/guitarist and I had worked together previously in a different band, and he knew that I could play rock, so when he started his own band, he invited me to join. The "gimmick" of the band, if you can call it that, was that they had a steel guitar, but didn't play anything even vaguely resembling country music.
I've watched that video if there was more music like that youngsters might think, "Oh I like that, there are millions of guitarists,not many pedal steel players, maybe I could make something of it and stand out from the crows."
Another point here is that the tone on that song integrates with the genre, lots of people play outside country, but they use the country tone.

Sarah Jory does a great version of Last Horizon by Brian May, that is the arrangement she wanted, but it would have jumped up magnitudes,in my opinion only, if she had used some effects, and drive, like her lead guitarist.

You don't have to play the instrument to have a valid opinion, you can have an opinion as a listener.
I know this is a difficult instrument to play, lap steel also, and difficult techniques are taught early, as compared to standard guitar,I find that daunting. You wouldn't teach a 2nd month pianist trills and half pedaling. I would give good money for some lap steel Lick Libray vids, teaching some songs I was interested in. As to tunings, there are hundreds of comments on this forum about learning one tuning is a lifetimes study. That is why I suggested a more appropriate tuning for modern genres from the start. Remember that when Jerry Byrd invented this tuning in 1939 there was no rock for instance, it was the perfect tuning for the type of music being played at that time, and of course brought the notes under the fingers and slide. There is no implication to decry such a master, or others like him. I am told that E9th is technically superior to C6th but evolved over a period of time with many changes, but although contemporary music had evolved by the late 50s early 60s, there is still a huge gulf to even the 70s never mind 2013. If I was a youngster thinking about integrating pedal steel into to modern genres, I would not want to sound like I had just finished playing Sleepwalk, I would want a completely different tone. You can still learn the palm muting, blocking and all the other techniques in any tuning. If that was not the case in the past then there would be no need for E9th either, and I am not going near copedents, as that is way outside my scope.

Now the less important points. Bit over stated with the marshall stack comment. I lug about a Hiwatt DR103 and a 2x12 for my son, and i'm sure that would be adequate for nearly anything. You misunderstood my point on pedal boards, I was alluding to space on the floor when a pedal steel with more than say 3 pedals was being used, and practicalities of playing.

[Mike Perlowin]

Mike and Dave refreshingly frank replies. Bit dissapointed with all the "wrongs", just because you do not agree with something does not mean they are wrong.

It does when somebody who doesn't play the pedal steel guitar says things about what it, and the standard tunings can and can not do. (I've had this argument before, with people who insist that the steel is incapable of playing classical music.)

The tune on the video was done on a (more or less) standard E9/B6 tuning. And so are all my classical recordings.

The late Al Vescovo (who only played C6) once teased me about playing what he called "the hillbilly tuning." I answered that I played "The Mozart tuning."

BTW John, although I can play rock, (a holdover from my misspent youth,) I have no desire to do so. I don't even listen to it. To me, a symphony is more exciting than all the rock music in the world, combined.

[Brint Hannay]

I'm curious: Has anybody ever worked through the Ted Greene "Chord Chemistry" and/or "Modern Chord Progressions" book, executing everything in there on E9th, or C6th, or E9th and C6th, or some form of 12- or 14-string Universal tuning?

If (as I admit I suspect) no one has, I'd stick my neck out and say I'd wager no one could--all that stuff probably couldn't be executed on any of the above configurations of pedal steel.

But Ted Greene, and a select few others, can execute all that on a six-string standard guitar. The point being, the instrument is capable of it. So where is your "Such-and-such is all you need as a steel guitarist--seek no additional, or different, capabilities" as a matter of Principle then?

[David Mason]

I'm curious: Has anybody ever worked through the Ted Greene "Chord Chemistry" and/or "Modern Chord Progressions" book, executing everything in there on E9th, or C6th, or E9th and C6th, or some form of 12- or 14-string Universal tuning?

MMMMP... mmmph....

amend to:

I'm curious: Has anybody ever worked through the Ted Greene "Chord Chemistry" and/or "Modern Chord Progressions" book, executing everything in there on a FRIGGIN' SIX-STRING GUITAR... besides Ted Greene?

That book has held a space of honor on the shelves of millions of guitar players for 40 years now... it only gets hard to understand when you open it!

[Brint Hannay]

See my edit above: "The point being, the instrument is capable of it."

[Dave Grafe]

Bit dissapointed with all the "wrongs", just because you do not agree with something does not mean they are wrong.

You may state opinions all day and night, son, but bottom liner if your facts are incorrect or the scope of your vision is inadequate for the subject at hand your opinions are bound to be, well, wrong. It's nothing personal, it's a teaching moment, are you up for it?