So, how was the convention for you?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 10 Sep 2013 7:47 am

Paul E Vendemmia wrote: Could these seminars be run between the hours of 9:00am and 12:00 noon on Friday and Saturday so you don't miss the shows...

Hi Paul, that's why I suggested that the same seminar be run a few times each day, so people could choose which one to attend at what time. If, say, the 30-min intro dobro techniques seminar was given 6 times (say, on each of Friday and Saturday at 9am, 1pm and 4pm), sure you'd miss somebody on the main stage but you could choose which one to miss; after all, truth is, most of us can't stay in the big room full-time anyway and get up and move around the hotel, missing some players anyway.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 10 Sep 2013 8:03 am

Bob, I was speaking about the St Louis ISGC. The differences in the ISGC and the Dallas "Show" has already been addressed.

Danny Hammers · Post by **Danny Hammers** » 10 Sep 2013 9:25 am

So, how was the convention for you?

Great ideal for a topic Jim C
but people that wasn't there shouldn't post on this topic and then stir the pot
I'm not a fan of this "back and forth posting"

For me, I had a great time, in our room, the main ball room, and in the halls and other rooms.
And seeing Tommy and Lynn go in the Hall of Fame.
It doesn't get better than that.

My only post
Danny

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 10 Sep 2013 9:33 am

Danny Hammers wrote: ... people that wasn't there shouldn't post on this topic and then stir the pot

Danny, you're probably right, there maybe should be a different thread for people who didn't attend to discuss what, if anything, WOULD make them want to attend the ISGC (or any steel show/convention for that matter), in the future. In the end, for the shows to stay alive they need to keep attracting people so we need to have a clear understanding of what brings people in and what keeps some people away. So constructive suggestions from the non-attenders can be very valuable though perhaps, as you say, in a different thread.

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 10 Sep 2013 10:26 am

Like I said in an earlier post, I've been attending the ISGC for about 40yrs. There were a few years in the 90's that I didn't attend because of my sons being involved in sports and a traveling soccer team. However, I didn't attend the last 2 years because of tighter finances as a result of the economy. And, because of the fact that I'm not playing locally any more because there are no places to play and no one really wants a steel guitar in a band, especially an old guy playing it. Plus, the local clubs don't pay enough anymore to make the effort worth it. So, the enthusiasm is low. The convention always motivated me to play with more vigor when I got home. So, I sit at home and play and do some ocassional steel tracks at an area studio and play one or two area steel guitar shows every year. Perhaps, this is a factor with a few other steel players that are still above ground?

Sad, but true.

Danny Hammers · Post by **Danny Hammers** » 10 Sep 2013 10:27 am

Thanks Jim

Maybe something more constructive and I'm sorry for the bad video, lot of people in the way. Yes a LOT of people.

2013 ISGC AWARDS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMIpyTvM ... vcxa9-lJbw

And more at

http://www.youtube.com/user/DannyHammers

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 10 Sep 2013 11:50 am

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 10 Sep 2013 11:54 am

Jack Stoner wrote:Bob, I was speaking about the St Louis ISGC. The differences in the ISGC and the Dallas "Show" has already been addressed.

Please point me to it? Most of the discussion here seems to be generic to the industry, not St Louis specifically.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 10 Sep 2013 1:14 pm

Herb Steiner outlined the differences between the ISGC and the Dallas Show. I thought it was on this thread but I don't see it.

Larry Baker · Post by **Larry Baker** » 10 Sep 2013 2:30 pm

As a friend of Scott Henderson, I didn't read into his post that He was rude or disrespectful to Mike Sweeny, just that there should be more than one instructional session at the convention. I was unable to attend this year due to health reasons, but prior to this year, I hadn't missed a convention for over 30 years. No more need be said at this point. Larry

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 10 Sep 2013 3:03 pm

Larry, if you will read my previous reply, you'll see my apology to Scott, as somewhere earlier in the thread things seemed to be going askew.
So sorry for your health issues. I hope you heal quickly and completely. I also hope you make it the ISGC next year!

Greg Vice · Post by **Greg Vice** » 10 Sep 2013 3:35 pm

Jim great thoughts seminars and small contests would be great. I hope no one took offense from my earlier comments. Just concerns, I want it to be there always, I'am already thinking about next year hope to see you there next year love asking questions about making different sounds loved talking with you last year about using lisle cab from organ you told me Rusty used it. I deal with a lot people in days time and usually try to bring steel in the conversations. got to go lodge meeting, now talk about gotta change to get younger envoled to survive at 61 i'am one of the younger ones.

Don Lanier · Post by **Don Lanier** » 10 Sep 2013 3:44 pm

I always enjoy seeing my extended family, YOU STEELERS most of who I had never heard of until I was hired to do Sound for this show, I understand the issues at heart here, AGE, TIME, ECONOMICS, DEMOGRAPHICS....I cant believe after 42 years this show is still not well known about outside the Steel Guitar Community around St Louis. I like Lynn Owsleys Idea some radio time, Interviews and small shows a week or two before the event locally could help promote the event, Guitar Centers or local musc stores could do a series of small clinics, as well as a local radio appearance, we need more LOCAL ADVERTISING...

I think you need to reach out to the Younger players, get them in the show, the Talent show and INVOLVED...I think a YOUTH SHOWCASE needs to become part of the show.

I think the show needs some PEOPLE with IDEAS... and youve got to get involved in the shows setup, operations etc...Opinions, Suggestions, BE INVOLVED. Micheal and Sandra are working hard to carry on, they can use your help. There family has grown up in this, can some one volunteer to help for half a day here and there...be involved.

God Bless Scotty and his family, I have met a few Great men but Scottys love of this LIFESTYLE, its People, and its Instrument is second to no one, hes been a Mentor and a Leader, He built the BIG SHOW, burning the midnite oil each night in his office, I know as weve had quite a few late night phone calls. THE BIG SHOW just needs a tuneup and it needs its BELIEVERS to come to its side, not kick it or put it down.

The Millenium has made it hard on Scotty with Changes and promises and many completely out of his control yet he puts the fire out and puts forth his show, even when he cant see us, or walk very well, He makes me proud he stands up and does it....

Ive seen the Greats come and go, while Ive only been around about 8 years, I missed many of the Greats, but the Greats I grew to love are playing there today, My first year there was the RUSSLESS SHOW, and I had 11 of the greatest steelers on stage at once, a memory no other show will compare too, that for me was such a fantastic event...Ill never forget it.

I agree many of you have grwon older, its harder and tougher, but I look at LT ZINN and Im inspired, a man who loves being with the people who love the steel...those that travel from Japan, Holland, Germany they seem to make it and support the steel guitar and its largest Convention.

Dallas has a huge intown population of Country music fans, while Missouri does as well they dont know about this event, I think better ads should be taken out and casual listneres who might become pickers could be attracted. NEW PEOPLE, NEW BLOOD has to be attracted to the music, steel and taught, about what this instrument is capable of. Dallas is Im sure a great show, they deserve the props of growth and attracting people, But lets not let our eye off the ball, do you want all these shows to be packed, with buyers, interested players, future prospective steelers.

This year the Junior Brown walk on added excitement, and I think if some work was done the BLUES FESTIVAL is the same weekend here in St Louis and we could get a act out there on the Blues Fest Stage who could then let folks know what this is, and do you want to see more....cross exposure I think could garner many NEW listeners.

Times are changing but now is thwe time to come together and repackage, and invigorate this event, not kick it, I think what you do is Amazing, I enjoy each type and style, and I plan to bring new Ideas, TVs, cameras, Lighting whatever will enhance your experience. I hope the future is bright, I refuse to believe that THE BIG SHOW will become just any show....EVER.

Larry Baker · Post by **Larry Baker** » 10 Sep 2013 3:59 pm

Tommy , sorry, but I made post before reading page 5, I'm doing fine, thanks , and I do plan on going to the ISGC next year. Hope you can make it next year again, would love to hear you again, and congrats on your Hall of Fame award, well deserved. Larry

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 10 Sep 2013 6:54 pm

Don, thank you for your thoughtful input and for caring enough to post.
I will say, the ISGC is more known and famous than you think.
Steve Wariner, The Whites, Vince Gill and virtually every artist and musician appearing on the Grand Ole Opry are familiar with our beloved ISGC. Steve Wariner, The Whites and Vince Gill would have all been there if only for the Hall of Fame inductions on Saturday if they had not had dates already on the calender. Unfortunately, I didn't receive notice in time for their bookings. Maybe next year, as The Whites have played the ISGC with me back in the late eighties.
I've been shocked just by people on the ordinary who know what the ISGC is.
All good news.

David Hubenak · Post by **David Hubenak** » 10 Sep 2013 9:04 pm

The St Louis Convention is always fun to attend. I have been attending for 20 years and don't plan on "putting it down". Being in the midst of that much talent under one roof is nothing short of awesome. The stage band alone is worth the price of admission. Roy Rosetta is like the rock of Gibraltar up there. At times I thought there needed to be a fire extinguisher brought on stage to put out the fire on Dino Strunk and Paul Polish. Russ and Ric on bass (great stuff and I didn't know Ric could sing so well). David Russell moving to Texas was music to my ears. We can always use guys on fiddle of that caliber down here (they get a lot of respect too).

Like I said St Louis is fun regardless of the attendance being down, but a lot to consider as to why i.e. cost, mileage, Cardinals being out of town (LOL), vendors trying to turn a profit, etc. It is where I first met my heroes of steel guitar. Buddy E, Buddy C, Lloyd, Doug, Russ, Hal, John H, Mr. Moon, and on and on. Wish the Big E would come by just to say Hi. Maybe he and Johnny Bush could chew some fat on the stage just for laughs??

I am looking forward to the Dallas show this spring. Albert Tally does a great job and it is evident after you have been there.

Is Johnny Farina's tuning proprietary?? After his set he told me it was, or something to that effect
LOL. He is a fun guy and a great talent.

Congratulations to Tommy W. Lynn O., and Rusty Y. Well deserved. Great remarks by Lynn upon accepting his award.

Roy Rosetta · Post by **Roy Rosetta** » 11 Sep 2013 9:52 am

Thanks David for the nice compliment about the stage band. These guys are all great musicians and as their bandleader I was very proud of their work. They work very hard weeks before the show on material sent to us by various players. Our objective is to make the steel guitarist feel comfortable and able to play his/her best.
Inadvertently you left out Jimmy Queen who shares time with Paul on drums and of course our elder statesman on rhythm guitar, LT Zinn.
Again let me say "thanks" for all of us in the stage band.
My congratulations again to one of my personal hero's, Tommy White, and to my long time friend Lynn Owsley and Rusty Young for their induction into the Hall of Fame. Well deserved guys.
I'm looking forward to seeing everyone again next year.
....Roy Rosetta

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 11 Sep 2013 10:37 am

Tommy apology accepted...I guess I am a bit sensitive about this instrument I have bled over for the past 30 years. Just because I didn't do it in a major venue doesn't mean I don't love it. And a lot of us middle agers are sensitive by the way we feel we've been ignored...Their are a ton of great regional players!!!! Hope their is no hard feelings....

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 11 Sep 2013 12:42 pm

There's a lot of good suggestions brought up. And there is the age old problem of how to get younger folks interested. I don't know the answer, but would like to tell a story that recently happened to me at a gig.

I had a 20 something guy come up to me at break and tell me he really liked my "slide guitar" playing. He wanted to check out my guitar. Well, obviously, he really wasn't watching the band very close. When I showed him my Pedal Steel, he said "what the hell is that thing. I thought you were playing a guitar". He then proceeded to tell me about Duane Allman, and others, to which he admitted never really seeing pictures of them. So I decided to explain the differences and that the PSG is not a slide guitar, but can emulate one. I showed him how it works and he then just walked away saying he didn't want to play that "country instrument".

This band he saw me with plays some rock and new country. Nothing classic. It has been said a million times that our instrument is seen only as a country instrument, no matter how many players take it beyond that. By the way, that kid I mentioned did know who Robert Randolph was, but never linked him to the PSG. I surely don't know the answer.

By the way, through all of this, I never congratulated the HOF inductees. Congrats to Lynn, Rusty and Tommy. Outside of his work with Ernest Tubb, I really don't know a lot about Lynn. Killer player though. And Rusty was long overdue. How many started playing because of him? And what can be said about Tommy other than he is one of the best that ever played the PSG. He never ceases to amaze me.

David Hubenak · Post by **David Hubenak** » 11 Sep 2013 6:47 pm

Roy,

My apologies for failing to mention Jimmy Queen and Leonard Zinn as members of the outstanding band of the ISGC. All of you are very gifted musicians, and have contributed greatly to what Scotty and his family have provided all these many years. Thank you all!

William Rosen · Post by **William Rosen** » 11 Sep 2013 8:51 pm

I'm new at non-pedal lap steel and a non-musician. I've been at it about a year and, while I'll probably never be more than a hobbyist, I find it very enjoyable.

My wife and I attended the Convention and had a wonderful time. We'll certainly consider returning.

At my newbie stage, learning is be a big draw and I'm interested in the suggestions above about seminars.

I have no idea whether it would be financially or logistically feasible, but have they ever considered using the meeting as a site for pre-arranged and pre-paid for individual lessons and/or very small group guided playing sessions? At my stage, a few hours of instruction over a few days in the Convention environment would give me enough to chew on for quite a while.

The thought is that it might encourage "new" people to attend and might employ some guitar teachers.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 12 Sep 2013 4:11 am

I have no idea whether it would be financially or logistically feasible, but have they ever considered using the meeting as a site for pre-arranged and pre-paid for individual lessons and/or very small group guided playing sessions? At my stage, a few hours of instruction over a few days in the Convention environment would give me enough to chew on for quite a while.

It can be quite feasible. I know in the past, Jeff Newman, Joe Wright, and now Mike Sweeney have been doing seminars, and I assume the are paid seminars that require registration. Maybe having a few over the course of the weekend would be a good draw. The problem would be when to have them without interfering with the big show. I have noticed the convention over the years has been getting shorter. I believe I read that there are no longer Sunday shows. Didn't the convention start as a Thurs through Sunday event, and maybe even some on Monday. Maybe a Thursday or Friday (or both depending on demand)during the daytime hours could be set aside for seminars and the nights for the talent show, special guests, etc. Have Saturday and Sunday reserved for player's show sets. This would be more of a draw for me.

Having really thought about my first comment about the draw not being there any more for me, I really want to see more of my "heros" there. Sure a lot of the other players are very good (or they wouldn't be there), and I would enjoy them very much (it may not sound like it, but I am a very strong supporter of the steel guitar. It IS my life). But I really want to see the heros. I think the lack of these "heros" might have affected attendance. Several of the top players had commitments and couldn't make it. Paul Franklin, Mike Johnson, Larry Sasser, Weldon Myrick, Lloyd Green, Sonny Garrish, Jay Dee Maness, these guys are still around and still active but either were not asked (which I would imagine Scotty did ask them - Scotty's no dummy), or they just had other commitments they couldn't get out of. I'm surprised that someone as busy as Tommy White could make it. Nothing but my highest respect for him for doing so, as I am sure he had many other commitments that he either gave up or was able to postpone or have someone else cover.

I also read on here that the vendors used to be in the main room along with the shows. I have mixed feelings on that. I think it would be great to be able to check out the vendors while still being able to hear the show. But also, the noise level could make it hard for the vendor and prospective buyer to talk. Maybe there could be some cubicles out in the lobby or other rooms (not sure where the vendors currently set up, where there could be one on one interactions. This would be more for the major item like guitars and amps as I think the smaller stuff doesn't need as much time to check out. This would be like a car dealer. You get interested in the main lot, but the salesman takes you into his cubicle or office to talk turkey. I remember when I was shopping for a new guitar, Tom Bradshaw had a show here in Concord with Jimmy Day, Bobby Black, David Wright, and Scotty. There was a presence by Carter, Remington, and I believe Mullen was there. They all were set up in the main room and it was a little hard to talk while sets were going on. Had to use the breaks and then lots of people all swarmed to the displays. But it still was possible to check them out. I ended up ordering my Carter not long after that show.

I hope the St. Louis show keeps going and can get back to it's old self attendance wise Maybe a smaller venue for a while so the crowd can build back up at less overhead is the answer.

Unfortunately, I have never been able to attend any convention. I was either gigging and couldn't get off (in the early days, there weren't many players to call on to fill in for you, and if they did, they were trying to steal your job), I couldn't afford it, and when I could afford it and not playing (this would be the second marriage), my wife would never allow it.

I won't get into my thoughts on the hall of fame, but that's another issue for me.

I said in my first post that there were a handful of players I would have gone specifically to see. I may forget a couple, but of course Tommy White, Ron Elliott, Doug Jernigan, Bobby Black, Sid Hudson (really like his use of a flat pick to play - very cool), Sarah Jory, and one of my newest favorites, Mike Sweeney. I know I missed a couple, but I have to get to the laundromat and don't have time to really research who was there.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 12 Sep 2013 6:27 am

I'll offer some personal comments on the topic of vendors at IGGC, if I may, and why I no longer display my products there. Short answer: attendance is falling (meaning fewer buyers), and the expense of simply being there is too high.

First is the expense of a booth or table (ignoring the cost of room, parking, food). A 2'x6' table at ISGC costs $325; at other shows a product table is $150 or even less. Frequently players at these shows who are also vendors receive a complimentary product table as part of their remuneration for playing the show. However, not so at ISGC; if you play, you still pay. And like I mentioned above, with falling attendance, fewer attendees mean fewer buyers and therefore less reasons for a vendor to spend money on a table or room.

I used to have my product table in the Main Hall, but after a couple years requested I be in the foyer or the hallway. For a couple reasons: first, as someone pointed out, it's difficult to talk to customers when the show is going full blast volume, since they're paying more attention to the show than to your sales spiel.

Also, the Main Hall used to be closed all day Friday so that the players on the Big Stage could rehearse. I pointed out to Scotty that since I couldn't be selling to anybody during those hours (all day Friday until 5pm), I shouldn't have to pay the same amount for my table as a vendor who could be at his booth all day. The price didn't change, so I moved into the foyer.

However, the crowds continued to drop. Since I had to sell 16 courses to simply break even for my booth, and with sales falling, I decided I'd simply sell my product at shows that have me as a player and make it economically feasible to do so... Dallas, Phoenix, southern Illinois, etc.... and forego a booth at ISGC where I do not perform. I've heard the same story from other vendors: falling crowds, falling sales, increasing expenses, and so there's little incentive to return the following year.

I would hope the ISGC would realize that the vendors are a big part of their product presentation and their draw. The vendors aren't simply another form of customer for ISGC, they're also junior partners in the venture. When vendors are presented with a money-losing proposition from the git-go, the other shows and the Internet look more attractive. And the value of ISGC to the attendee is diminished.

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 12 Sep 2013 7:26 am

Herb's post is possibly another reason to move the ISGC to a less expensive facility. I'd guess the cost (overhead) to Scotty at the current location is very expensive, even though it is perfect in every other aspect.
I always liked the vendors in the main hall convention room because I can listen to the main stage and still check out the vendors. There's also the down time between sets that you can wander the booths and stay in touch with the announcements, raffles, player introductions, etc.
When I was in the market for a new guitar in 1982, I was able to sit down at each guitar brand at the vendor booths and still stay on top of what was going on on stage. Granted, the headphone amps for listening to the guitars isn't the same as being able to hear it through an amp. But, on the other hand, the amps in the hallway vendors isn't the same as my amp. The fine details of a guitar can still be defined through headphones.
My opinion, I liked it all in the main hall. Get the overhead down (different location)and pass the savings on to the attendees, buyers and sellers.

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 12 Sep 2013 9:51 am

Well put Herb.....and besides I can still ship you a philly of need be!

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