So, how was the convention for you?

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 9 Sep 2013 9:00 am

Tommy White...What I mean by "more knowledge is...more knowledge...When I was doing books back in the 80s I was told my target audience was the bedroom picker not the working musician. And the target audience I feel is starving for knowledge...When I am approached by the learing steeler the questions are most usually not what kind of ax or amp or processor I use. It's usually "Do you give lessons...I come from the seminar generation and I learned a lot from them. Don't see them anymore. I am also a realtor. When I go to a "convention" it's most usually about learning to become a better realtor... So are they steel conventions or steel shows? if it's a convention why not have learning centers. Why not have Russ Wever give 30 minute sessions on writing good charts? Why not have Ron Elliott have a discussion on his approach on playing E9th or Tommy White on his approach to C6th? People will come and they will learn something that will keep their interest in the instrument. Believe me they're out there....In the 70s we had Emmons sho bud MSA BMI and a few others. How many do we have now....If they don't want to learn they're just spectators....

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 9 Sep 2013 9:02 am

regarding politics.....Where two are gathered their's always politics....We all could write books on it I'm sure....

Larry Lenhart · Post by **Larry Lenhart** » 9 Sep 2013 9:40 am

I regretted that I wasnt able to attend this year...I had planned on it but unexpected health issues kept me from going...it sounds as though it was a great great show ! Alot of great pickers on stage and I am sure in the other rooms as well. Maybe next year.

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 9 Sep 2013 10:22 am

I respect what you all are saying about the younger players but I'm not talking about teaching the "younger " players. I would venture to say the average bedroom picker is probably around the age of 40, has enough expendable income to spend $2000 on a rig (steel amp picks volume pedal, etc) Today, that is your target audience to sustain the instrument. so why not keep them interested by teaching them. it's ok to have a get together to show them the latest tools of the trade...but you take a man who has all the latest equipment, doo dads and such, if he's frustrated it don't mean much and he'll be hitting ebay before long....get my point...I've heard several say if you don't like it don't come...I don't...It's not a negative thing but that show doesn't excite me...to be honest a show filled with swing, jazz, and some fire would be about the only one that would. In the words of several world renowned steelers..."Their's only some many ways you can play way to survive" If STL and primarily E9th music is your thing then by all means go. A trip to this show costs me about $500 a trip to Dallas would cost me about $2000 I'll take Dallas....and no I've never been but from what Ive seen and heard I'll take Dallas....not negative just a preference....

Terry Winter · Post by **Terry Winter** » 9 Sep 2013 3:56 pm

Can't believe the little jabs here and there about the convention. We came some 2000 miles, stayed at a great hotel, was treated royaly by all, met great people with our same interests both pro and others,
Scotty's show was just awesome. No negativitey will pull us down. Thanks Scotty and family, fellow steelers and St. Louis!!

Dean Holman · Post by **Dean Holman** » 9 Sep 2013 4:05 pm

I really believe and feel there are some sensible solutions to improve the convention in the future. Iccan't believe that there aren't enough great players still around to captivate an audience, heck.Tommy White alone would be worth the 60 dollars or so. I can name several players off the top of my head that can and has filled the shoes quite nicely of those that are gone or unable to attend the convention. We need to be supportive and encouraging. Opinions do matter but griping and complaining about it is not fixing the problems. Things aren't perfect and need to be fixed but what puts a damper on everything and causes people not to go to the convention are the one's that complain all the time and have this don't waste your time attitude and never elaborate on the good and positive things that still go on at the convention. I think it's great and wonderful that there are still enough people and interest in the steel guitar to still have the steel guitar convention. And I haven't said this yet but congratulations to Tommy, Lynn and Rusty. Steel guitar has much to offer and still some great players coming out of the woodwork. Let's work together instead of all the negativity.

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 9 Sep 2013 4:32 pm

not trying to be negative just offering an opinion that a lot of people "quietly" agree with. ( all I gotta say about that!) If the steel shows are all they're going to be then fine. Leave it alone. enjoy. What do I know I'm just a pud part time musician....I'll shut up.........

Don Drummer · Post by **Don Drummer** » 9 Sep 2013 4:40 pm

Scott Henderson's suggestions make sense. The post at the top of the page should be noted. This institution that is St Louis needs to be re-vamped. Scott's ideas that would make it more comprehensive is a good place to start.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 9 Sep 2013 4:50 pm

Scott Henderson wrote:.and no I've never been but from what Ive seen and heard I'll take Dallas....not negative just a preference....

So, you've never been to a show and you are judging the type of music played, etc, and making overall assumptions??
Please correct me if I mis-read?

bob

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 9 Sep 2013 6:33 pm

The talk about learning interests me. It's funny, I thought I gave a seminar out there on Friday morning. Don't think I dreamed it.
If a person wasn't there they really can't form an opinion that holds water.
I do believe that this thread was intended for folks who went to give their take on it, not, folks who didn't and want to run it down.
I've never been to the Dallas show but I've heard it is a great show with lots to see and do and I'm sure it is great because the folks that put the show on work hard to make it good. That being said, Since I've never been I can't give an opinion on it and will not try to discourage anyone from going.
As for Scotty's convention, If any of you have ideas that you think would help the show call Scotty's music or email Scotty and let him know what you want. He may or may not do it but griping here ain't going to help. It's just going to deter people especially new players from going. I personally would like to see a go-go dancing partner for Beatle Bob but I don't think that will fly.

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 9 Sep 2013 7:10 pm

Bob I've never been to Dallas but I have this neat thing called a computer and it has this neat thing called you tube....Mike how was you turnout? I hope it was very good? OK I'll go away now so you can be happy........

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 9 Sep 2013 7:16 pm

Well it was a good turnout. Very promising. I am very happy.

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 9 Sep 2013 8:10 pm

The fix won't come until the next fad of country music incorporates the dominant sound of steel guitar again. After the Urban Cowboy craze faded out, Rock seemed to creep into contemporary Country music and steel wasn't as necessary for selling the music. Consequently, young musicians haven't been as interested in learning to play steel guitar.
I'll be 65 soon and have attended the St Louis Convention most every year for 40yrs. The average age of attendees has gone from about 35yrs old to 65yrs old. My two sons don't play, but like to attend the convention with me. We were standing at the back of the convention hall on a Saturday afternoon a couple of years ago and one of my son's looked around and asked, "how much longer will this be able to continue? Everybody is old."
With forum comments about cost to attend, travel expenses, etc, maybe the thing to do is downsize, bring attendence cost and overhead down and get smaller numbers of people into a smaller area? In a less swanky place, maybe Mike and I can split the cost of a go go dancer for Beatle and liven up us geezers?

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 9 Sep 2013 8:11 pm

Scott , you offer some thought provoking ideas but, you are short sighted on the big picture, uninformed and somewhat rude. Mike Sweeney is one of the best steel players of our time. His set in St. Louis was nothing short of stellar. To try to insult him is not right. By the way, there is no politics involved that I know of. If you know of something I don't, please enlighten us.
Dean, thanks pal. Glad you think I'm worth $60.
I really have nothing to gain or lose by posting my opinion. However , I still love the instrument and hope it survives at least again the time it's been around so those who haven't heard it will get to.
Nay sayers and negative folks will always be around to shake the tree . I honestly believe positive and supportive people will out number them to cause a successful result.
Scotty's International Steel Guitar Convention was the first and the biggest. Buddy Emmons once called it the Super Bowl for steel guitarists. I agree.
I'll be there anytime I can.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 9 Sep 2013 8:21 pm

Tommy White wrote:Scott , you offer some thought provoking ideas but, you are short sighted on the big picture, uninformed and somewhat rude. Mike Sweeney is one of the best steel players of our time. His set in St. Louis was nothing short of stellar. To try to insult him is not right. By the way, there is no politics involved that I know of. If you know of something I don't, please enlighten us.
Dean, thanks pal. Glad you think I'm worth $60.
I really have nothing to gain or lose by posting my opinion. However , I still love the instrument and hope it survives at least again the time it's been around so those who haven't heard it will get to.
Nay sayers and negative folks will always be around to shake the tree . I honestly believe positive and supportive people will out number them to cause a successful result.
Scotty's International Steel Guitar Convention was the first and the biggest. Buddy Emmons once called it the Super Bowl for steel guitarists. I agree.
I'll be there anytime I can.

Amen, Killer !

Scott Shipley · Post by **Scott Shipley** » 9 Sep 2013 8:22 pm

What Dean, Mike, and Tommy said.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 9 Sep 2013 9:11 pm

Personally, I think it would be a great idea for the ISGC to transition into a more educational experience, with lots of demonstrations and seminars going on all weekend, in addition to the players on the main stage, side rooms, etc. More like the "trade show" model. In addition to the half-day paid, in-depth seminar of the type that Mike Sweeney gave this year, I could imagine there being lots of short (20-30 minute), free demonstrations, talks, etc., repeated intermittently throughout the weekend. Things that would be really educational for a lot of people and, while not directly related to sales, could indirectly support commerce at the convention, making it more attractive for the vendors to attend too. Plus by being more educational in nature, it would hopefully attract more beginners and mid-level players and wannabees, many of whom would probably be younger than the current average age of the crowd.

To give you a feel for what I have in mind, here are some hypothetical examples off the top of my head:

Joe Wright or someone else could give a 20 min demo on pick-blocking (and would have a DVD available for sale to those who wish to pursue it further)

Mike Perlowin could give an 30 minute intro to reading music on steel guitar (and has a Mel Bay book on the subject for those who want to go deeper)

A PSG manufacturer could give a free 30-minute orientation to the C6 tuning for those who already play E9

A PSG manufacturer could give a free 30-min intro to E9 for people who play standard guitar but have never tried a pedal steel at all

Somebody could give a tutorial on adjusting and maintaining a PSG

A custom nonpedal steel builder (e.g., Clinesmith, Pettingill, GeorgeBoards, etc.) could talk about how they design and build their instruments, answer questions, show tools & techniques

A resonator builder could discuss the different construction styles, bodies, cones, plates, etc., their functions and differences.

A string manufacturer could give a short discussion and demo of the different types of strings, composition, manufacturing process, etc. Could even be a fun contest to see how fast people could change a 10-string neck (neatness counts!) and the prize could be a free pack of strings from that manufacturer. Other sets could be available at a show-discount. (Maybe other kinds of fun contests with prizes could be dreamed up to be held during the weekend, like 'Steel Guitar Trivia' contests, etc)

Peterson, or another tuner manufacturer could demo how to program your own presets into their tuner. (Of course, they have the tuners for sale at the show).

Ken Fox or someone else who makes/installs amp mod kits could demo how to do your own mod (and sells the kits on-site, once you see how easy it is to do...)

Someone could do a short seminar on their approach to "Ambient Steel Guitar"

Someone could do a short seminar on tips and tricks for recording steel guitar.

Jim Baron could give intermittent demos on how to get started with Band in a Box (which he sells)

etc, etc.

I think you can see that, if there were a bunch of these kinds of short-burst seminars going on all weekend, with each one being repeated perhaps a few times each day, the character of the convention would shift significantly from what it presently is. It would create another focal point (or many) for people who complain that they're tired of hearing too many of the same players playing too many of the same songs on stage each year, and give them another reason to attend the ISGC rather than stay away. Being educational in nature, it should also help attract more newbies, younger folks, as well as maintain interest in the long-time regular attendees. (And more time should be spent thinking up specific topics to appeal to the younger crowd than I have done above off the top of my head.)

Organizing something like this would take a lot of time and effort, probably by several people. But it might be the kind of change that the ISGC needs to remain vital and growing into the future.

I'm certainly not the first person to think of this (and there is some of it going on at the Dallas show already), but maybe I've fleshed it out a little fuller above, and on a larger scale, so it might be a little easier to visualize. I'd be interested to know what y'all think of this kind of transition to a more educational 'trade show' model.

Jimbeaux

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 9 Sep 2013 9:30 pm

Thanks for the kind words Tommy.

Dean Holman · Post by **Dean Holman** » 9 Sep 2013 9:59 pm

Tommy, I definitely think your worth more than 60 dollars. Your expertise and friendship is priceless. I think the solution is this. I think Scotty should accommodate everyone. I think he should call Emmons, Green, Franklin and other big names and offer them more money and playing time and really make their trip worthwhile and charge more for a badge. The cost of a badge would depend on the cost involved to get all the great players to come. Make it to where anyone can see and hear steel guitar all day and all night, if not on the main stage maybe have something going on past midnight in the jazz room. Bring in some more musicians to let the guys on the main stage have an opportunity to rest more often. I think the problem is people think they are not getting what they pay for. Maybe the idea of people would pay more for having more. Maybe Scotty renegotiates with the Millennium or find another Hotel that can accommodate the convention. Maybe Scotty gives more of a break to the vendors to ensure that all of them can come and make up the difference in the cost of the badges. Maybe most of the people that come to the convention are semiprofessional or professional musicians or anyone that makes any kind of money playing, they could use the convention as a tax write off. Maybe some people should find less expensive accommodations. People have a whole year to plan for the convention and be able to make some choices and realize it would be worth it because the convention would be no holds barred because of EVERYTHING the convention would have to offer. Teaching seminars even product seminars. Buddy Rmmons said the convention was the super bowl of steel guitar. I think it still can be and if people would pay what the cost of a super bowl ticket cost which I'm sure I considerably more than what it costs for a two day badge at the convention, Scotty would be able to afford anything WE wanted. It boils down to you get what you pay for and maybe we're not paying enough to have everything we want. Maybe that's what Scotty needs to know is people would pay more for their badges if Scotty would spare no expense. I know I would pay more to be entertained by the best for 48 hours. Steel guitar is my life and and in my opinion worth more than a super bowl ticket or a Broadway play or any other concert ticket. As for Scott, I think your opinions and suggestions matter but your kind of taking all of this at a more personal level instead of just a complaint. It's okay to have a complaint and suggestions but all of that kind of got shot in the foot when you say your not attending the convention anymore anyway. That's kind of like people that complain all the time about the president but didn't vote. I don't want you to not want to go to the convention anymore and I would like to think there has to be something about the convention you did like. I refuse to believe it was all bad.

Jim Anderson · Post by **Jim Anderson** » 10 Sep 2013 2:42 am

I never post here but I often visit. I have only been to Scotty's once (2003). As a first time attendee, I pretty much walked around with my jaw dropped the entire weekend. So many of the "greats" were there; Lloyd, Hal, Herbie, Jeff, John Hughey, Jimmie Crawford, Russ Hicks, Doug Jernigan, Sarah Jory, Johnny and Joan Cox, and on, and on. Of course, Buddy Emmons tore the place up. I remember their great sets, but I also remember some other super talented folks. Russ Weaver opening with the Star Spangled Banner, Randy Beavers doing a Bach piece, and Don Helms playing Cold Cold Heart unaccompanied come to mind.

So, the only reason I was able to attend, was my wife had mistakenly planned some mother-daughter retreat, not realizing it was Labor Day weekend. I saw my chance, and made arrangements immediately. After that weekend, I've been trying to find a way back, which brings me to my point. There very well may be good reasons why it is always Labor Day weekend, but for many potential attendees, that is a holiday traditionally spent with family. If your family doesn't share the passion for steel like you do, you're probably not going to go. I wonder how many others are like me, simply unable to attend that particular weekend. I'd love to go again and see some of the newer talent, but it takes special personal circumstances for someone to attend every year, year after year. Incidentally, the badge was $60 then also, making it a huge value.

Paul E Vendemmia · Post by **Paul E Vendemmia** » 10 Sep 2013 4:25 am

"more educational 'trade show' model" I love This and I would be there in a heartbeat! but may I add one thing. Could these seminars be run between the hours of 9:00am and 12:00 noon on Friday and Saturday so you don't miss the shows if fact they could be done in the big room one after another and maybe bring back the big TV's.
NOW! were thinking boys Thanks Jim and Sid
I tip my hat to you both.

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 10 Sep 2013 5:36 am

Really good ideas on this thread now.
Paul V, I agree with the time schedule you suggest, as that would still keep the focus on the" big show" part of the convention. I always thought the seminars and side shows were in part the reason for some people being scattered and disappointed they may have missed a favorite player.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 10 Sep 2013 5:57 am

Another factor in the decline is the Internet, including this forum. We didn't have access to information that we have today. Years ago just about the only way to get the information was to go to a manufacturers facility or a venue such as the ISGC. Today, we can go on the internet and find out about almost all steel guitars, strings, amplifiers, etc. The internet allows vendors to reach more potential customers at a lower cost than a "trade show".

I read somewhere, probably on here, that one vendor stated they would have to sell 3 steels just to make expenses. Granted, exposure is the way to get business and it is a business expense but it has to be a worthwhile business expense. Another, who is selling everything he can produce, said the last time he had a booth at the ISGC he didn't sell one of his products.

The great talent on the stage at the ISGC every year is worth the admission, and its great to be able to talk with them, but with the limited vendor presence it becomes another "steel show".

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 10 Sep 2013 6:27 am

Jack Stoner wrote:Another factor in the decline

There is no "decline" in Dallas.

Like I said, the real question here is why is Dallas growing and St Louis is shrinking?

bob

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 10 Sep 2013 7:19 am

Tommy I don't feel I was rude or insulting to Mike. I was sincerely asking about how is seminar went. Jim Cohen is spot on. I;m not criticizing I'm offering suggestions just like everything else. Up until this year I played a lot of shows around the midwest and believe me theirs politics. we just keep it quiet. The only reason I would have possibly come to this years show was to see you Tommy. Uninformed? Not to be rude but you don't know me, where I live, or who I hang out with.... Big Picture? Who's gonna fill their shoes comes to mind...With most of the great steelers all ready gone and what's left going away and the young steelers are out busy working or raising families who is going to be left to carry on? Enlighten me on the Big Picture...I know I'm probably diggin my own grave here but as someone said to me in a pm "Someone's gotta be the martyr!" LOL I play music I make a good living and I enjoy my life... I'm sorry I didn't take that path that lead to years on the road 3 wives and no relationship with my kids just so I could say I worked for this star or this star but it is what it is.This isn't about me it's about the future of steel guitar after the current status quo is gone...Their are a lot of us out here waiting.....Not to be "rude"