tuning problem

BoFrazer · Post by **BoFrazer** » 30 Jun 2003 10:13 am

What the heck am I doing wrong? It can't be my excellent Mullen royal precision guitar; it's gotta be me.

When I press A+B pedals, my E goes slightly flat. It's not too bad, but what I can't take is when I try that "other" inversion, of A pedal plus kl-lr to raise the E, then my G# goes even more flat, enough that it sounds pretty bad. I would think that maybe it's rods rubbing against each other, because they do seem to be, a little bit; but it doesn't look like enough to actually cause the kind of travel that would move the bridge doohickey (pardon my vernacular).

Am I supposed to oil these rods or something? Does anybody else have this trouble? Dear Abby, please help...

signed,
Mostly N. Tune

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richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 30 Jun 2003 11:08 am

Welcome to the world of cabinet drop.
You may have to put some compensating rods on to keep it in tune.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 30 Jun 2003 11:36 am

Search for 'cabinet drop' on this Forum section and then settle down for a couple of days while you read all the stuff that's there. I'll help cut to the chase for you, but still suggest you go through the exercise (use the 'Search' link above to find all threads in 'Pedal Steel' on that topic)

The solution Richard gives is one possibility. Put a raise rod on your 6th string on your A pedal and use that raise to offset the detuning. I believe you'll find that the 6th string is the only one you can't live with. Have you measured it with a tuner? How far down does it go?

If you accept the fact that the 6th is the major culprit and you can live with a little drop on 4 with A+B and on 5 with just B, you may want to try a wound 6th string. The musical interval/distance a string raises or lowers by loosening or tightening a given physical distance is proportional to the core of the string. The bigger the core, the more the detuning effect will be. A 022 plain has a 022 core (duh!). A 022 wound has a 009 or 010 core (or something like that) so the detuning can be cut in half by going to a wound string. Some guitars will do this more easily than others. I'd suggest you give Del Mullen a call. He may have other suggestions.

Another possibility, if it's not too pronounced a problem, going to a slightly lighter string may help some. If you're using a 024, go to a 022 or 020.

Most guitars do detune. And we've covered all the bases many times before. Do your homework, do the search, and call Del.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 30 June 2003 at 12:39 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 30 Jun 2003 11:54 am

The Mullen is a very solid and well made instrument. One of the very best.

Before I make a suggestion I need to know a couple things.

How long have you been playing ?
Do you use a tuner ?
If you do what are the settings ?

Bob

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 30 Jun 2003 12:05 pm

You can greatly reduce the drop of your G# string by changing from a plain to a wound string. Unfortunately this will slightly worsen the drop on the other strings when you raise that wound string, because it is a little bit harder to raise.

We all live with these problems, and we eventually learn how to fine tune the instrument so that the chords we need sound good.

Roger Osbourn · Post by **Roger Osbourn** » 1 Jul 2003 8:37 am

Hi Bo;Let me tell you that I know exactly how you feel.You have spent a large amount of money for what you were lead to believe was a "Royal Precision" instrument and you have found out the HARD WAY that all steels have problems detuning,atleast my new one does.I wonder how much money it would take to get a steel that is truly precision.Be careful about calling the builder. They do tend to get offended when someone questions the quality of their instrument.Believe me, I know.Hopefully they won't talk down to you and tell you that you will have to learn to tune around any problems the guitar may have,regardless of how much it cost.Thanks for bringing up the subject. Roger

BoFrazer · Post by **BoFrazer** » 1 Jul 2003 10:21 am

Wow, thanx for all the info, guys. Looks like quite a can of worms I didn't mean to open. I've heard about cabinet drop, but this is not what I thought it meant.

I'm using an old Peterson strobe piano tuner that I just calibrated -- works great for nailing those pesky allen-wrench fine tunings of how much the pedals move the bridge rollers. (Geez, I'll have to learn some proper vernacular to keep up with you all, eh?)

Anyway, I put a little chorus on and presto, problem gone (sort of). Close enough for country, anyway.

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 1 Jul 2003 10:49 am

Hey Bo, I'm a relatively new player - also playing a Mullen Royal Prec. by the way, which I love! - and I also got into this hairy cabinet drop subject a few months back via a question about that A pedal + F lever tuning problem... So we have a lot in common! Aside from doing the reading as Larry wisely suggests, I'll tell you one thing that has helped me is: tuning the Fs *a little* flat and "cheating up" with the bar just a fraction of a fret. This cures *some* of the string 6 weirdness...

Brad Burch · Post by **Brad Burch** » 1 Jul 2003 12:41 pm

Your guitar is fine. You will need to learn to tune without the tuner. Use it to get the pedals down root note to A first. With the pedals still down tune the 8th string E to the A (at 440). From there on out use your ear. Ricky Davis has a whole step by step instruction set on tuning.

Tuning up to other musicians is my least favorite thing about playing pedal steel.
Especially if you are late to a show and the steel has been banged around a little in a warm trunk. I keep a headphone set in the seat in case I can't hear myself when tuning due to noise.

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 1 Jul 2003 1:36 pm

How much is G# actually dropping when you go to the inversion with A+F? FWIW, when I look at the tuner, I see cabinet drop that I don't notice when I listen to the intervals... at least not enough that I'm grating my teeth over it.

Buck Grantham · Post by **Buck Grantham** » 1 Jul 2003 1:51 pm

One thing you can do is pay attention to how hard you push the pedals down. New players tend to pay more attention to their hands when playing and don't realize that they are pushing very hard on the floor pedals, and this causes a lot of de tuning because when the pedal hits the stop something has to give,and that's when the body gives. As you get more experienced you will only use enough preasure to push the pedals to their stops and no more. We all live with the same problems so we have to cope with it.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Jul 2003 3:31 pm

I concur with the majority, here. If you notice the strobe tuner doing loop-de-loops, but it still sounds acceptable, just forget it! A strobe tuner will show tuning deficiencies in any instrument ever made, and those deficiencies probably won't affect your playing in the least. (But you do have to watch the pressure on those floor pedals!)[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 01 July 2003 at 04:32 PM.]