So, how was the convention for you?

Scott Shipley · Post by **Scott Shipley** » 3 Sep 2013 8:14 pm

I hadn't had the pleasure of attending the convention since sometime in the '80s (the year Pete Drake was inducted in the HOF).
First off, you mean to tell me that y'all will pay THOUSANDS for gear but complain about spending less than $100 for three days of instruction, inspiration, and entertainment on your instrument???
Wow.
I only got to see part of the show on Friday night but was THOROUGHLY pleased. Lynn Owsley was awesome, Billy Robinson was AMAZING, and Sarah Jory killed it. Those three alone were worth the price of admission. And Johnny Bush sittin in with Leon Rhodes on guitar?!? Y'all MISSED it!
I don't consider myself a pedal steel guitarist per se, but I came away from there inspired. Found a bar like I've been looking for forever, got my picture taken with Miss Donna Darlene and Shotsie.
Hats off to Scotty and crew, awesome job. Looking forward to next year!

Douglas Schuch · Post by **Douglas Schuch** » 3 Sep 2013 9:19 pm

An interesting conversation, for sure. As someone who has never attended a convention, and in fact has never heard another steel player live (excluding forum bro's Harry Johansen and Don Brown, who have stopped by for visits here in Dumaguete and played my steel some), I think I would be in sensory overload surrounded by all those great players and so many instruments to try out! So, I guess I will add attending the STL and Dallas shows (yeah, both) to my bucket list.

So, to the carpers, well, perhaps your complaints have some validity.... But, your carping means you got to attend. So I am jealous!

Tommy White: your vocal support of the convention when playing it no doubt means losing money from your regular gigs means my esteem for you as a person is now equal to that I have for you as a player. A true ambassador for the pedal steel.

Big name players? When I first decided I wanted to learn pedal steel, I could not have named a single pedal steel player. Most music fans are no different. Now that I know first hand how difficult this instrument is to play, there are so many players I admire, and not just the usual "big names". Richard Sinkler: you are a "big name" player to me. I would love to one day here you play live. Just remember that when those greats of yesteryear were playing, you were still learning, so you looked up to them. You have played as long now as many of the "greats", so you are much harder to impress than you were then. I'm still a newbie, in awe of even players just a few years more experienced than I am.

I think we need to forget the numbers game - pedal steel is just not as popular as it was say 30 years ago. Is it a lesser instrument for having lost popularity? I think not. When Mozart was composing, his music was some of the most popular music of the day. Now? Far fewer listen. Many know his name, but few can name or recognize any works by him. Has his music diminished for being less popular? No. Has it died? Certainly not.

I would suggest it is not wise to compare current conventions to previous ones - the instrument, the music, and often the players have changed. Instead let us hope for the best steel guitar convention we can have under whatever circumstances we are in - weak economy, aging fan base, whatever ... and, as always, the best music featuring steel guitar that can be arranged.

Doug

Dean Holman · Post by **Dean Holman** » 4 Sep 2013 1:08 am

I just wish I could go. It seems like there is always plenty to see and do. I always enjoyed all the vendors. You sure can't go to very many or any music stores and see everything like you can at the convention. Do I miss Emmons, Green, Hughey and others that made the convention so magical? Yes, but there are still some great players and great up and coming players that I am glad to see trying to keep it going. I agree with Scott, we will spend thousands on guitars and gear but complain about the price of a whole weekend's worth of entertainment not just on the main stage but all the rooms that have something going on and hear other great players and see and hear some great guitars and products on the market. I agree the economy sucks but that just means you make choices and most people that do go to the convention probably plan on it a year in advance anyway. Sure I miss the old days and some of the players that aren't around anymore but steel guitar is not dead and we need to get out there and promote it as much as we can through thick and thin. My only advice to Scotty would be, don't slap the hands that feed you and have helped in the thriving success of the convention and keeping it going for so many years. And don't forget it was your love and passion for the steel guitar, not money, that made you expose this instrument for the whole world to enjoy. I say this cause sometimes people lose sight of what is the most important. I do pray for the continued success and the legacy of The International Steel Guitar Convention.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 4 Sep 2013 2:47 am

I attended every ISGC from 78 to 97, with the exception of one. I've been intermittent since retiring and moving to Florida.

In years past there were free seminars. George L's (George Lewis)held them on cables, pickups and strings. Sierra guitar had a seminar one time on changer design. CM Baker, along with Herby Wallace, had a demonstration on what his Lil Izzy product did. St Louis music had seminars on their products which included Ampeg and Crate and other items (they owned those brands plus Alvarez and was a music supply distributor).

I remember walking into the Sierra room, one year, and Joe Wright was giving an impromptu session on his pick blocking technique.

Along with the annual Jeff Newman seminars, one year Emmons had a seminar (not free) which wasn't that good, but it was worth the price just to be able to talk to him ("pick his brains") and get his ideas and approach to picking.

A couple of years, that I was there, there was a guitar show, in a separate room in the convention area (and separate admission).

G&L Guitars even had a demo room one year.

I'm sure there is more that I missed.

(As I have a Sonar X2 recording studio, Pro Tools does not interest me).

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 4 Sep 2013 3:34 am

Paul , my previous post is a correct observation and I'll stand by it.
You're right .You do have the right to ask for anything you wish sir and I hope they all come true for you.
Peace.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 4 Sep 2013 10:51 am

I attended ISGC in, I believe, '96 and '97. I was a newbie but had the fever. I still remember the thrill of arriving at that first show, and seeing Buddy Emmons, JImmy Day, Hal Rugg, Jimmie Crawford, you name it, all in the same room. I consider myself very fortunate to have seen the greats play, most of whom are gone.

Also, I should mention the very first steel guitar show I attended, LT Zinn's show in Grand Rapids. A bigger smile, that of LT's, has never greeted me anywhere. Doug Jernigan was the star that day, and his performance was a religious experience. Evelyn Whitney was right there, helping to make it all happen. Frank Rogers, her son the steel guitarist, blew me away.

As with bluegrass, I was impressed at how personable, casual and accessible the players were. These weren't rock stars. These were musicians who loved their music and wanted to share it, to see it continue through the years.

So I'm not happy to hear about the low numbers at ISGC, but jealous of all the amazing talent I missed!
Scotty carries on!

I do feel the conventions, to survive, need to diversify. People young and old love steel guitar.

Steel guitar provided a renaissance in my professional life and I'm grateful for the opportunities it has presented.

thanks,
Drew Howard

Doug Childress · Post by **Doug Childress** » 4 Sep 2013 11:04 am

I have a few observations regarding the St. Louis ISGC. I have been attending every year since 1982 with exception of this year. When I began attending Scotty still had all his hair and I was 42 years old. Today I am 72 and would bet that at least 25 per cent of the attendees in 1982 have passed on as have many of the Legends. A lot of the Studio Session guys that we hear on records who also would help attendance are locked away in recording sessions and cannot commit to playing these type of venues. We now have many steel shows that feature players almost identical to the St. Louis lineup and this may be a deterrent to leaving one's locale and traveling a long distance to see the same pickers again do the same show.

What I observe is that younger players are not getting involved with steel guitar and those that are play a different style than what is generally accepted with the normal Steel guitar show as we know it.

Another factor is that without a turnover in age groups there are not as many new buyers being developed hence the vendor availability tends to decrease based on market demand.

I own five steel guitars and belong to two steel guitar clubs (Texas and Arizona). I want the steel guitar community to grow and flourish so I encourage new participation, new ideas, new methodologies, new products, and be accepting to steel guitar styles even though it may not be our bag.

Keith Bolog · Post by **Keith Bolog** » 4 Sep 2013 12:48 pm

Yes there are economic pressures hotel remodeling and the 'big' names of old are gone, and so on. The scuttlebutt is that Dallas has eclipsed St Louis.

I couldnt make pimple on the ass of any of those players so I am THIRLLED to hear all of them play, interact and get an easy front row seat. There was plenty to do and see. The jazz room was phenomenal.

I have an analogy for all my friends who dont get it: If this was the International Rock Guitar Convention you'd be drinking coffee with Eric Clapton, tequila with Slash, learning tricks from Ingwie Malmsteen, etc you get the idea.

I havent been attending long enough to have a valid reference, but in the few years I have gone, each year had a palpably smaller crowd. You cant rent a big venue like that with vendor and spectator numbers as low as it appeared this year. There is something in those comments of doom.

I agree its the lack of youth awareness (in this case anyone under age 60), and therefore interest, plus the steel guitar's absence in modern music. Rock became metal, and country has become 'wood'. The steel guitar seldom even makes a cameo appearance, or its an aftertought. For instance I went to a guitar show and tried to peddle an old Dekley - many people ask "what is that?" A:'a steel guitar'. "but it looks like its made out of wood". These are guitar players, right? When I demonstrated my feeble chicken scratching on the thing they were amazed by the sound coming out of it, like they had never heard it before. How to popularize steel guitar, reach critical mass in social media, and weave it into today's music is the Q. Twerk it, maybe.

Thanks

Scott Shipley · Post by **Scott Shipley** » 4 Sep 2013 4:38 pm

Btw, I apologize to the artists that I failed to mention, I was only there one night so I missed a lot.
Here's a question, do you think you could approach Carlos Santana or Neal Schon or Eric Clapton and get them to discuss technique with you? I doubt it. Where else could you talk face to face with the legends of the instrument (on ANY instrument) like you can at the convention?

Dan Hatfield · Post by **Dan Hatfield** » 4 Sep 2013 4:40 pm

I couldn't agree more with Sid; a lot of wisdom in his post. The fact is, no matter what you think should or shouldn't be done, the average life span for man is around 80 years. Most of us who attend these shows are hurtling toward that benchmark at breakneck speed. We are dying off like flies, and no one is taking our places. In order to continue these shows, drastic measures must be taken to spark an interest for younger people. How is that done?? I don't even pretend to know; I only know that this is the key to survival for the shows and someone smarter than me better come up with a way or it is over. These steel shows remind me of the VFW halls all over the country; I play one twice a month, and nothing is ever done to bring in anything different or exciting. Its the same old people hobbling in (and I am one of them) and most of them frown on doing something outside the box, something crazy, something exciting to spark an interest for new people. The young people of today are accustomed to wall to wall entertainment with big screen TVs, the internet, ipads, iphones, you name it. Even the school teachers have a very hard time holding the interest of the students in their classrooms.
Most steel players (including me) look like they are doing their income taxes while they play. And there is nothing wrong with that; but you really need to stick in an act every now and then that brings comedy, or laughter, or excitement. Just one little example of that and I will shut up. When I go to the Dallas show, there is one act I will not miss, and that is the Charlie Pride band. Ronnie Miller is a great player, but I have to admit my eyes are always on that unbelievable drummer. I challenge anyone to watch him work and not have your jaw on the floor. Cheers.

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 4 Sep 2013 7:50 pm

I don't know how the steel guitar scene is around the U.S., but Southeast Iowa is slowly becoming extinct. About 30yrs ago we had 15 steel players actively playing every Friday and Saturday night in the Iowa City/Cedar Rapids area. Some played during the week. Of those 15 players, 8 have passed away. Of the remaining 7, 3 of them play a couple of times per month. The other 4 play at home or have quit. Maybe the few young Contemporary Country bands in the area don't want grandpa playing steel in the band? Or, steel is not a uniique sound that's needed to play the top 40 Country? Add the expanded laws, codes, lawsuits, rising expenses, inflation, computer entertainment, bad economy and cornfield county isn't like it used to be. I suppose other areas of the country may have a similar scenerio. If so, it has an effect on the overall outcome of Scotty's Convention. And, Scotty is making the best of a bad situation. Maybe it's time to downsize?

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 4 Sep 2013 8:33 pm

I was lucky enough to attend the ISGC during the Heyday, mid to late 2000's; seeing Paul, Buddy, Hal. John Hughey, Weldon,Lloyd etc. many times many of them on the same show. Surprises included Dolly Parton, Barbara Mandrell, Vince Gill, etc. The side rooms were full of amazing music late into the night and vendors galore. I was there in 2009 or 2010 and noticed everything falling off the cliff. The economy was what everyone blamed and it made sense to me too.

Then in 2012 I attended the Dallas show for the first time and was surprised at the attendance, vendors, and energy at that show. I attended the St Louis show this year mainly to see Tommy and my friend Bobby Black and had a great time but was very shocked at the lack of Vendors and light attendance.

The question that I propose to you all is: Why is the Dallas show thriving and bigger each year while St. Louis is waning? Same economy, same lack of youth, etc? Is it demographic? Most attendees in Dallas local?

If all the shows were dying we could blame the economy, lack of interest, generations changing but that's not the case. So what does Dallas have that Scotty seems to have lost? Love to know and would love to see St. Louis back where it was; after all it is, and will always be the "Big" show!

bob

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 4 Sep 2013 8:55 pm

I'm guessing it's because it's closer to a Country Music thriving population? A lot of good Country pickers in Texas compared to my area in Southeast Iowa. We have Blues and Rock bands falling out of the woodwork. If I recall, Texas economy is doing fairly well.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 5 Sep 2013 5:38 am

Dennis Detweiler wrote:I'm guessing it's because it's closer to a Country Music thriving population? A lot of good Country pickers in Texas compared to my area in Southeast Iowa. We have Blues and Rock bands falling out of the woodwork. If I recall, Texas economy is doing fairly well.

I think you are right. I meant "geographics" not "demographics" !

bob

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 6 Sep 2013 7:20 pm

Lot of valid points regarding the process of sustaining our instrument.....
For what it's worth..... Getting more of the young steelers involved is good but I still believe the community skipped right over a generation. Lot of great steel players out there in their 40s and 50s that don't come to shows because they're busy working I guess...me being one of them...or maybe they just weren't invited. There are great players out there how never got the chance to play Ray or Ernest or any of the greats of old...guess it's our fault for being to young to get that opportunity. Doesn't detract from our ability.....guess that's why I quit going to these "parties" no real advancement of the instrument just the same ol blah blah blah...I don't mean disrespect to Lynn Rusty or Tommy. I know this year meant a great deal to all three of you and you all deserve you accolades. (long over due) I would just like to see more knowledge and less politics.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 6 Sep 2013 8:09 pm

Scott Henderson wrote:....guess that's why I quit going to these "parties" no real advancement of the instrument just the same ol blah blah blah...

The ol blah blah works just fine for me, thank goodness :-0

bob

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 6 Sep 2013 8:22 pm

Then enjoy the show....

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 7 Sep 2013 2:15 am

Scott Henderson, would you please enlighten us and elaborate on your comment of, "more knowledge and less politics"?

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 7 Sep 2013 4:32 am

Why do so many spectators, vendors and players attend the Dallas show?

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 7 Sep 2013 5:51 am

Brian Henry wrote:Why do so many spectators, vendors and players attend the Dallas show?

That, I believe is the real question here!

bob

Paul E Vendemmia · Post by **Paul E Vendemmia** » 8 Sep 2013 3:45 pm

69 post that's more then the number of people at the Friday shows in St Louis this year.
How about that!

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 8 Sep 2013 4:36 pm

I'm 58 and have never been to the convention.

Not that I wouldn't want to go. I got real close in 1977 and wish in hind sight that I had went. What a great time that would have been. My brother went the year Jerry Bird was playing and went with Dwight Harris who was a friend of Jerry's and a great player himself.

For me it was work ... and to a lesser degree cost and today I pastor a church and have services on Saturday and Sunday. Enjoy the great talent and players of today if you can get there.

David Graves · Post by **David Graves** » 8 Sep 2013 6:57 pm

I have read each and every post on this thread and I believe the answers to the "dilemma" are right in front of our faces. The next step is to do something about it. First and foremost, God Bless you Scotty for still doing this huge undertaking after so many, many years. And, Congratulations and Thank you Tommy White not only for sharing your amazing talent with us, but for showing the "nay Sayers" what true passion, dedication, and pride looks and sounds like. I believe there are some great ideas from Samuel Vance's post. He IS the new guy that we are trying to reach. We should take his words and suggestions to heart. As we all know there is no one single quick fix to bringing the show back to its former self overnight but I believe the answers to getting a good start are in the previous 3 pages. The first thing that everyone should realize is your either part of the solution, or your part of the problem. Just don't give a complaint or a gripe.. Give your ideas on how to fix the problem. Your entertainment value is just as important as the next guy, and your opinion DOES matter. But if your not happy, let someone know what could make you that way. Be part of the solution. Unfortunately we don't have Herby, John Hughey or Mr. Newman and the many many others who have passed on. But we do have incredible talent like Tommy White, Doug Jernigan, Sara Jory, Joe Wright, Randal Currie, Austin Stewart, Mike Johnson and the many other players that are playing TODAY!!! I am only adding my two cents because the steel guitar community deserves so much better support from all of us.. Me included. I know it's easy to tell someone what you didn't like, or didnt care for, but wouldn't it be more beneficial to offer to Help with a solution? Keep in mind, admission cost and expenses are not relevant for every person. Not every Newbie has a Zum, or a D10 PP. Try to remember back to when you were 18 or 19 working at the gas station or Radio Shack. Could you have afforded the entire weekend? Yes, I believe the talent and knowledge available at the show is well worth every penny and more, but the younger crowds we are trying to reach are not usually financially responsible at that young age. And when asked with the question " drop a couple hundred bucks on a steel show or the iPhone? This is a different world than 40 years ago. If it would help start the ball rolling, maybe there should be a thread of " what you would like to see at St. Louis 2014. The first thing we all have to accept is that it's not a grip session or rant and rave place.. It should be for honest positive suggestions. Remember, it's not YOUR show alone. There are a lot of people with different likes and desires. It's impossible to accommodate every single person, but a little flexibility goes a long way. The most important thing is the POSITIVE survival of the steel guitar and its community. This was not at St Louis, but here in Indiana. I heard a younger, very talented musician who is just getting into steel say " I felt like they hated me because he said i dont play the old stuff" That's what we have stop immediately. Whether its Big E, or Robert Randolf. There is a place for all of it and we should all welcome it. If its not your style.. Then just step away.. But don't discourage it. There, it's off my chest and I feel better. And, Congratulations to all of the new Hall Of Fame inductees.

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 8 Sep 2013 8:25 pm

I don't have the financial figures, so I'm guessing:
Since the support numbers are down with attendance and vendors, logic may say, downsize and move the event to a smaller venue? This may be temporary until the economy and trend of younger players starts to come back. Is there an old ballroom or smaller hotel in the St Louis area that could accomodate? Perhaps less overhead would help?

Wally Moyers · Post by **Wally Moyers** » 8 Sep 2013 8:30 pm

As I read these commits I got to thinking about my years of playing and what inspired me to play. I was very lucky in that my Dad was a great steel player. I grew up hearing him play and always loved the instrument. I started playing guitar at 9 and was in my first band at 11 playing the Beatles etc.. When I was 17 I started playing steel with local legion Tommy Hancock after two days of lessons from my Dad. Of course I was not a good steel player but knew enough about music to cord along and had a good enough ear to play in tune. I was already a good guitar player so I thought of myself as a guitar play that played enough steel to keep a job.. It wasn't until I heard my now brother in law, Lloyd Maines play aggressive rockin steel that just blew me away that I really saw the instruments versatility. After that night I spent every waking moment working my butt off trying to become a good player. At the last Dallas Texas show there were three players in attendance that started because they heard me at some live performance. All of these guys started taking lessons from me and eventually became good players. I don't say this to point at myself but to point out that playing steel in public will do more than anything to keep the instrument growing ... If you get a chance to talk to someone about the instrument don't talk about how hard it is but about how easy a guitar player can add it to what he does. Just as my Dad showed me how the basic positions and a/b pedals relate to bar cords on a guitar, we can remove some of the mystery about the instrument... As Terry Bethel and I were talking last week, no one ever masters the instrument. We are all at different levels in our quest to play and we all have different taste in music but anytime we get someone playing there is a good chance they will get the bug and put in the needed work to become a good player... Those guys will attend shows at some point..

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So, how was the convention for you?

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