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Topic: B string pedal |
Nick Waugh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 7 Sep 2013 6:46 am |
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Hi Folks
On my Carter SD10 I have a pedal on the undercarriage that i lower by bringing the top of my knee straight up - it lowers the b string a whole tone. I have never been sure what to do with this pedal as I cannot find use for this interval. Then today I was watching a Micky Adams clip on Youtube. He was talking about playing a minor scale over a major chord and lowered this B string a half tone. I am not 100% sure that this is how he dropped the half tone, but assumed it must be this. The problem is I cannot adjust the interval from whole to half tone as it just shifts the whole tuning back, rather than just the raise. in other words, the pedal takes my b string down to an A, but if I adjust the raise up to A sharp, the open string has raised up to C. Can anyone advise me please?
Warm regards
Nick |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2013 8:22 am
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The typical function for that lever is lowering the B to Bb.
It sounds like the nylon tuner at the endplate is way too tight, so much that it is affecting the open note.
Look at the nylon tuner for that lever and see if the changer finger it touches is not in line with all the others.
The typical solution is to release tension on that tuner so that it is not touching the changer-finger (there should always be a little space between the changer finger and the nylon tuner).
Then retune the open string at the Keyhead so that you have a B-note that is not being affected by any rods.
Then tune your B to C# raises and make sure they are working.
Then tune your B to Bb note.
There is usually a screw of some sort right at the lever, that will allow it to travel further (or less). This may also need to be adjusted. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 7 Sep 2013 9:46 am
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Pete has the right idea.
The first thing I would have done is adjust the lever's travel. If everything was working correctly when lowering a whole tone, then reducing the travel of the knee lever would make it stop sooner, at the half step point. I have done this several times over the time I have had my Carter and tried different changes on the up (vertical) knee lever (also referred to as LKV). You can also just back out the nylon tuning nut so it only lowers to Bb, but you will likely end up with a lot of "slop" (excess travel before the string starts to move) when activating the lever.
| Quote: |
| The problem is I cannot adjust the interval from whole to half tone as it just shifts the whole tuning back, rather than just the raise. in other words, the pedal takes my b string down to an A, but if I adjust the raise up to A sharp, the open string has raised up to C. |
Not positive that I understand this, but that is not the right way to, well to do anything. Sounds like you are trying to do a split, but if you lower a whole tone then hit your "A" pedal, that would just bring the string back to a "B" note (or somewhere close). Adjusting the raise nut after you lower the string is bound to screw the tuning up. I imagine that if you look at the nylon nut when all pedals are not being activated, the 5th string raise nut is probably up against the finger and raising the string to "C".
You really want to get the lever adjusted to where it only lowers a half step.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2013 10:02 am
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Maybe you can link the Mickey Adams vid?
My guess is it's the AB+LKV minor?
This may requiere a split-tuner for that string. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 7 Sep 2013 10:26 am
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
Maybe you can link the Mickey Adams vid?
My guess is it's the AB+LKV minor?
This may requiere a split-tuner for that string. |
I'm sure that is what he is doing.
I was going to bring this up in my first post, but here is what you need to do to get the split. You already have a rod raising string 5 (and 10 if you want), and the B to Bb lever. That lever actuated along with the "A" pedal will give you something close to a C note. If it is in-tune, you got REAL lucky. To be able to tune the split (the C note), you will need another rod for string 5 (and another for string 10 if you want the split on 10 also). The extra rod will attach to the same bellcrank as the Bb lower (LKV). This rod will go into one of raise finger changer holes. On my Carter, I used the bellcrank hole and the changer holes closest to the guitar body, although my split is on the 6th string, the principal is the same. So, what will happen is, string 5 will raise to C# when you activate the "A" pedal. At the same time, activate the "LKV". That will lower the raised note down 1/2 step to a C note. the way to tune the split is as follows, and was already mentioned by Pete.
1. Tune the open string to a B note. This procedure also applies to string 10 if you split that string too.
2. Tune the raise to C# with the nylon tuner for the raise.
3. Activate the lever along with the "A" pedal and tune the C note with the nylon tuner that is in the LOWER changer finger.
4. Now tune the lever by itself. The Bb note will probably be a little flat. The extra raise rod you installed on the lever's bellcrank is to raise the string slightly to be in tune. Just adjust the nylon nut until the Bb is in tune.
You should be good to go.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Nick Waugh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 8 Sep 2013 2:14 am
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Thanks guys
That was really helpful. I have now shortened the travel of the knee lever so that it only travels half a tone. I have also made the lever more reachable for my knee by raising the height of the knee lever (I don't have to reach my knee so high now). Problem solved. I appreciate your advice.
Have a great week.
Nick |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 8 Sep 2013 8:37 am
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Are you trying to tune the amount of the lower on your vertical KL using the tuner on the Key head?
It should be a simple matter to adjust the amount of the lower on the 5th string using the nylon tuning nut. Hold the VKL in the full lower position or "all the way" up against the stop and then back off the nylon tuning nut for the lower on the 5th string until your tuner shows the 1/2 step lower and your done.
JE:-)> |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Sep 2013 9:26 am
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Jim, the only problem with that is that he will have excessive travel on the lever before the nylon nut hits the finger and starts to raise the string. Shortening the travel of the lever should be the first move. Then he will have a nice short travel on the lever to make the change. Carter Vertical knee levers don't like a lot of travel and can hit the undercarriage components if there is too much travel and you can't angle the lever down far enough to clear the undercarriage when fully engaged. I actually had that problem on a Williams I used to have, and once on my Carter when I tried to raise my 5th string to D. If I angled the lever down far enough to clear the undercarriage, I couldn't get my knee under the lever. Although, that was before I lifted the guitar 1".
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Sep 2013 11:18 am
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Joseph, how does that work on a push/pull. This is only to satisfy my curiosity, so you can email or PM me so we don't hijack this thread.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Posted 8 Sep 2013 11:31 am
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I had a friend show me once on the emmons now I myself dont use any splits although they are on there if I ever want to. I dont even like the full lower 6th sting split as well. and never ever use the vertical level most of the time I forget its even there
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuH7H8BajODaL_wy3_HSJQ |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Sep 2013 11:32 am
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I have heard from some that it can be done on a push/pull. I believe I may have heard that from Lynn Stafford.
Anyway, let's not get into the Push/pull here.
The Emmons all pull, do they have the screws tapped into the changer for splits. I would really like that to be the method used on my Carter. Since the tail piece is angled at the back, I think it would be very difficult to add the split screws, forcing us to use the extra rod.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Sep 2013 11:38 am
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Joseph.. I use the 6th string split a lot for a 7th. I never use it to get the minor. I have my b to Bb on string 5 only, and it's on a pedal next to my A pedal. I have a split rod on the Bb pedal so I can hit both it and the A pedal to get the C note for the augmented chord. Of course, that arrangement doesn't allow me to get the minor with the A & B pedals, which by the way, I never did use when I had the Bb's on the vertical lever. Too many pedals and levers to activate to get the same minor I can get by releasing the pedals, use the E - D# lever and go up one fret. Same chord voicing. I do love the Bb pedal for getting the "II-9" partial chord, the same as with Pedal 5 on the C neck. It's pretty much the only reason I still have it on my guitar.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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