Selling and not a vendor

[Craig Schwartz]

Is it allowed to bring guitars, psg, amps , other items, to sell if your not a vendor ? Just asking !!! If so will there be a spot ?

[Bill Ferguson]

I can tell you, this is NOT allowed. The only way is to purchase a table space from Scotty.

[Craig Schwartz]

Thanks Bill,

[Jack Stoner]

I have seen cases where a registered vendor with a paid booth has allowed someone to sell something at their booth (usually for a commission).

[Ron Page]

You might want to advertise it on the forum buy & sell pages and offer delivery in St. Louis. Who could object to that?

[Bill L. Wilson]

Take a lesson from The Dallas International Guitar Festival, and The Arlington Texas Guitar Show in October. Everybody bring your guitar gear to buy, sell, or trade. Someone always walks in with a closet classic, and the same thing could happen in St. Louis. That Emmons Wraparound could possibly show up and be the hit of the show. Personally I would get that show out of St. Louis, move it to Dallas, Ft. Worth, Nashville, or Denver. Shoot, move it to Oklahoma City, and bring your pistols, we have concealed carry, and you can walk down the street without fear of being robbed.

[Craig Schwartz]

Thumbs up Wilson , I thought it was a good question at first.
I`m concerned that the topic seems to be a little touchy in St Louis only.
I Dont know what there reasons are, But whatever (kay sara sara)
I Been there twice, anything that was a deal, was used.
Thats why I asked the question.

I am not downplaying your coment by any means at all,
You actually made my day, and yes you`re right,
late night Milenium hoods were walking the pavement 2 years ago when
we walked back to our room at the Drury Hotel.(SPOOKY)
In fact some were sleeping on the park benches right out front to the North.

Was I scared , Not really cause I wanted to go to bed , but I did have couple K on me.
Thats why I wear pointed cowboy boots in the city. Good nut cracker,
Remember the strongest part for your defense, is to use your Elbow with severe force

Okay I`m rambling,
Like I want go there

[Dirk B]

This reminds me of gun shows, where patrons are allowed to walk around with a shotgun or rifle over their shoulder with a "for sale" sign attached... imagine walking around the ISGC with a vintage double-necked Sho-Bud draped over your shoulders...

BTW, we have conceal carry in MO too, and that includes St Louis.... just don't visit the Arch.

[Carl Kilmer]

Just keep whatever in your room, and rear a sign on
your back that says "FOR SALE %^&#%&* FOR $$XXX"

[Eric Philippsen]

I've said it for years.

At the St. Louis convention you're not allowed to sell used items. Or, if a dealer does, it's only a piece or two sitting off to the side or back of their booth. Put another way, at St. Louis I cannot rent booth space to sell used or vintage steels, amps, etc. Only Scotty is allowed to do that. He has always maintained a sole monopoly on the sale of any used items. I have never seen anything like it and, after the St. Louis Show eventually goes belly up due to ever-declining attendance, probably never will again.

He has the absolute right to do that. After all, he is the promoter. No dispute from me about that.

But I still think the practice is dumb.

[Bill Howard]

Eric your totally right about the ever declining attendance, I guess when the place has more staff than people attending will cause them to wake up.
I talked to a few steel guitar product suppliers including some builders who just cannot afford to pay the high cost of booth space,One steel builder said he would have to sell at least 3 steels to just pay for booth space so he doesn't go anymore&he isn't alone...
I just cant afford to as well with gas and food it cost about 500.00 not counting the expensive rooms. I think just an afternoon admission is around 35.00 a person couple that with a drink or two and it is over 100.00 or more I think it used to be 25.00 to 30.00 whole week end I know things went up but goodness. as I said not the only show in town anymore...They will lose in the end when people stop coming

[Eric Philippsen]

BIll,

I'm kind of on-the-fence about writing this. That is, maybe it's not the time. Or maybe it's not respectful or it's somehow appropriate. Then again I thought that, from just a business perspective, there's nothing inappropriate about it.

Now, I certainly realize that attending a show or convention is going to cost something. Of course it will. But think about it. In approximate dollars, if I wanted to go to this convention, I would be spending:

- $238 + tax for 2 nights at the Drury.
- $35 per day (or so) for admission just to get in.
- $10 per night for admission to the evening shows.
- $150, more or less, for meals.
- $100, more or less, for gas, depending, of course, on distance.

That's about $500-or-so. OK, I can afford that, but many can't. And at that amount, you can be guaranteed that younger people in attendance will be the exception, by far. Oh, sure, there will undoubtedly be a few, but they'll be few and far between. Then again, maybe younger people aren't necessary or wanted.

Additionally, this is what you'll see at the convention:

- fewer dealers because of high booth space cost.
- paying more $$ for a darn program, even though you paid $35 for each day's admission.
- no used gear for sale except in Scotty's monopoly room.
- lots of elbow room and empty chairs.

On the positive side you'll certainly see:

- great performances.
- great musicians
- old friends.

Look, I'm all for steel guitar conventions. Heck, yes. And the St. Louis one has a jaw-dropping history of having been a great one....in it's time. But it has simply failed to adapt or, if it has made some changes, they've been nowhere near enough.

Finally, knowing it's unfair to only criticize, here are a few suggestions:

- Right up there at the top, if the cost at the Drury is too high, then the show should be relocated. There are many places of sufficient size in the St. Louis metropolitan area that would LOVE to host such an event for far less.
- With a lower cost of venue, then booth space rental would be less. Hence, more vendors, obviously.
- Get rid of the monopoly on used equipment sales. No other promoter in music shows or conventions does it. Ridiculous.
- Combine the steel guitar convention with another guitar show or music-related convention.
- Book a national act for Friday or Saturday night. Make it's opening act a steel guitarist. What a way to expose steel guitar to the public, many of who would come to see the headliner.

[Lyle Clary]

You forgot the parking is expensive. Dallas is free.

[Jack Stoner]

The ISGC is at the Millennium hotel, not the Drury.

I'm surprised there aren't "flames" all over the place after the last couple posts. I've been flamed several times for even remotely saying anything about the ISGC, and I've been a long time supporter; having lived across the state in Kansas City and going to every one from 1978 (Chase Park Hotel) until 1997. I've been to many since then, but not the last three years. Our Florida Steel Guitar Club (when I was club President) even sponsored a Hall of Fame fundraising show. I had planned on going this year but had to make a trip to KC in May instead of August. I plan on next year.

[Eric Philippsen]

Jack is right. I stand corrected. The convention is at the Millenium and not the Drury as I had mentioned in my previous post.

[Herb Steiner]

In my experience of being involved in more than several steel shows and seen a bit of the inner workings of same, I've come to certain observations.

One reason for the differences in vendor/sales policies of the major competing shows is that while the TSGA (Dallas) and SWSGA (Phoenix) shows are run by non-profit organizations, the ISGC (St. Louis) show is a for-profit venture. While the goal is always to make money for the organization, the personal income of those folks running the non-profit is not on the line or an issue (unless they must dip into their personal money to cover short-fall losses.)

Therefore, decisions regarding hotel expenses (for the promoters), vendor booth costs, musicians' fees, vendor rules/regs, and all the other various expenditures are factored in when setting policies and making decisions.

[Jim Saunders]

I think Eric makes some valid points on expense. While I don't have numbers to support my thought, but I'd look into moving the show to a nice hotel, possibly nearer the airport. Like the Dallas show is not in Dallas, it's in the suburbs of Dallas in Arlington. Nice hotel and free parking, even though it's hard to find an empty spot on Saturday.
There are plenty of overflow hotels within walking distance in that hotels tend to cluster near an airport.

[Herb Steiner]

Jim
The TSGA Jamboree has changed hotels at least 4 times during the 20 years I've been involved in the organization. Each move is basically reinventing another wheel, so to speak.

Moving the hotel might solve a lot of problems for ISGC, but it could also be a Pyrrhic Victory, in that the incredible hassles involved with prospecting for a new location, then interminable contract negotiations, dealing with upper mgmt., finding new bugs in the system, unexpected hassles and delays, are so daunting as to make the whole effort simply "not worth it."

We're not young men anymore.

[Bob Blair]

For attendees who travel any distance to get to a show the travel, accommodation and food are the big cost items, and that will always be so even if a few bucks can be shaved off the price of a room or the parking is free (which latter is admittedly not much of a factor for people who fly in, unless they decide to rent a car). The investment of time is pretty substantial as well. I've always found it to be well worth it, not just for the ISGC but for the Dallas and Phoenix shows as well.

I've never thought the actual admission cost was much of a factor - those costs have never seemed exorbitant to me at Scotty's show or anywhere else. In any event they pale in comparison to the other costs of attending a show.

Herb is quite right - the amount of hassle and hard work that goes into selecting a venue and negotiating all the details for any kind of convention or show is daunting.