Size does matter, or not

[Larry Behm]

When you bring in a 2 speaker Walker system, put it on a box and stack them so that the top speaker is head level, the guitar player goes nuts. So much so that I left the gig early, shut it down and walked out and did not say goodbye or kiss my ass.

Friends told me they could barely hear me, the guitar was blowing the walls down. After 3 years of that crap I give up.

Larry Behm

[Damir Besic]

few years ago I played the gig with a "country band" at Tootsies down town, behind me was a hard core rock drummer, and lead guitarist had his amp in front of me, after the gig I had a really bad headache, and decided that I was getting too old for that kind of "country music" , I packed my stuff and went home, that was my last gig down town Nashville.


Db

[Dave Hopping]

I have the sense that lead players have a congenital defect that makes them try to drive the FOH mix with their amp.Might be fun to bring a really tall amp stand and make them play that loud in their own ears.

[Dave Bertoncini]

One of the biggest reasons I quit playing out years ago. Not only do they play too loud they don't ever shut up. They walk all over everybody all the time

Even had one band that the bass player though he should play lead bass.

[Elton Smith]

I played with a fiddel player that sat his amp up high so he could hear it.He was already deaf from listening to his own self play.Felt like I had a drill in my ear all night.

[Fred Rushing]

Tracks NEVER get in your way and never skip time and always play the right chord at the right time.

They make playing fun and enjoyable .

Fred

[Bill L. Wilson]

I love playing low volume gigs, but sometimes we play so loud, I've put my cheap ear plugs in. It does help to keep the "Cricket Noises" down in my head on the way home from the gig. And sometimes when I'm not playing steel, and just guitar, I'm the ugly old man, in overalls, with a long white beard, and a 100watt Marshall full stack, set at a bit less than 11. But still loud enough to peel paint off the wall. Cause every once in a while, you just gotta blow the walls out of the dump. JUST FOR FUN!

[Paul King]

We use the word "Band" loosely. Everyone should work together but there are some that just have to be the focus of attention and that includes volume. Just recently there was talk at church about putting the drums behind glass. Nonsense, he should learn to play at an acceptable level like everyone else. Guitar players and piano players seem to be the worst I have encountered for playing over the singer and going full throttle. I have found that the high 90 % of steel players I know or have been around have a better concept of playing with a band and not being too loud. What a shame to have to stop playing music because others do not know how to play at a level that is acceptable or work with others in a band. It is and will always be a problem.

[Dennis Graves]

Lot of good pickers in the world, but very few musicians.

[Roger Miller]

Larry, a second band I work in has acoustic guitar,electric guitar, bass and I on steel. No drummer sure makes a big difference. We make it seem as though we are a living room band and it works in big vinues and small radio and tv gigs. If you had a drummer, then it becomes work for them and the staff. Just get together with some guys without a drummer.
Roger

[Dennis Lee]

I'm with you on this, Larry. I have had this situation with some that I play with. About the only thing to do is get some separation from those players, then either meet their volume level, which drowns out any singer, or try to convey to all that the overall volume level needs to come down. If a person is any kind of musician, they would realize that a professional recording puts the singer in the forefront, and the instrumentals are there to back at the correct audible level, with swells of volume for solo's. Am I right here or all wet?

Larry's a great player and a great guy. If he walks, then I know for sure the others were totally out of line.

[Larry Behm]

Roger in this case it is the guitar player. I have worked with fiddle players, guitar players and piano players that would play from 9-2am without stopping. You must be kidding me. I have worked with drummers that played so loud they put dents in the snare head. You must be kidding me.

These are the exceptions but when you run in to them you have to shake you head, here we go again. When you tell them what they are suppose to do as a band member they look at you as if you had shot them in the head or had taken away their iphone.

40 years at 47 weekends a year plus practice with the band and on my own, I have logged a lot of steel time, maybe it is time to give it a rest. Gosh I also play dobro, fiddle and 5 string, maybe I should look for a bluegrass band.

Larry Behm

[George McLellan]

I played a gig with a drummer that was using electronic drums. His volume was controlled by an amp so no matter how hard he hammered them he still wasn't too loud. What a great relief.

Geo

[Willis Vanderberg]

Larry:
It is called discipline...and it is a rare thing to find now days.
When you are driving home thinking " Why in hell do I do this, it isn't fun anymore " it is time to lay back and take a breather.
In the old days it was called " Stealing Focus " and if you were backing a top notch singer you were done and gone, period.
I walked out of a Credence Clearwater venue a couple of weeks ago because it was so loud. I am hard of hearing and with both ears turned off it was still way too loud. Of course all the band had earl plugs.
Don't give up,take a break..

Old Bud

[Mike Heugel]

As someone who spent about 20 years playing in hard rock and heavy metal bands, with 100-watt Marshall stacks cranked to 11, double-bass drummers blasting 16th notes at 180 BPM, and vocalists screaming at the top of their lungs, I'm very careful when it comes to hearing protection.

I always recommend that folks check out different types of earplugs and ear protection for their given style. The technology has come along way since the "shove a cotton ball in your ear" days. Any good ear doctor can show you a few examples of good, affordable modern in-ear protectors that still allow enough sound to play and hear the band and your instrument well, while filtering the harsh frequencies that can damage the eardrums.

Good luck!

[Dave Mudgett]

Most of my problems like this arise from a musician either not understanding or not respecting the context of the type of music being played. And it ain't always guitar players or drummers, who get the worst rap about this here. When a hard rock player who doesn't get traditional country music or other more laid-back styles comes into that more laid-back situation, they're just lost and do what they know how to do, which can be real annoying. But I could say the same thing about someone coming into a loud rock band not knowing what to do - if you're supposed to go "chunka-chunka" through the song, it's not probably gonna work without it.

My take - if someone really likes and respects the music, he or she will be able to figure out how to fit in. Sometimes you have to give them some time, but they can be reasoned with. On the other hand, I've dealt with people who clearly don't respect anything but 'shove it down your throat', and they're hopeless. If possible, get rid of them; otherwise, I agree, not much point in fighting it.

BTW, I like rock and roll, and can rock it out on demand. But there's a time and place for that, and it ain't in a truly traditional country band, or traditional blues, jazz, folk, or whatever. But, IMO, too many people in modern society are deeply into this whole "niche culture", "My way is the ONLY way" thing - too much disrespect for other approaches. So they do that ONE thing they love and think they can shove it into every situation. Not a good model, IMO.

[Bill Bailey]

Larry, remember the words from the Byrds song,
To every thing there is a season. I think our season is fast approaching, but you can't quit I won't allow it. You mean too much to too many pickers and others I never met. Do the bluegrass thing for a while.

[David Mason]

The "no drummer" rule raises a lot of sanity. As soon as you get to that drummer level, you're a band, you need a PA, you need a soundman, you need this and that... I know that's not fair to a lot of good drummers, but it makes for some much more enjoyable gigs. I'm also real leery about people who "need" a drink or two to loosen up and get ready. They mostly just get louder.

[Joshua Gibson]

I have to agree with You Bill, there will NOT be a "Larry Behm retiring" announcement ANYWHERE on this forum anytime soon ,
However, I have first hand experience with said guitar player...and He is a proverbial @#!@$^%*&!!!!!!!!!, needless to say He is a thorn in the side.

[Wayne Franco]

Hope it wasn't my influence why you did this to a poor ol guitar player....

I really like that analogy in an earlier post "steeling focus". For the longest time I would control my volume by what I thought was the proper volume for the audience not the band. Unfortunately many time I might as well not even be on stage because I couldn't be heard over everything else. The band in my opinion was way to loud. I've talked with the guitar player (the one most responsible because of his volume). In his own words he said we should never be as loud as the lead singing with the back up and about as loud as the lead vocals when we solo. I agree to both ideas. However sometimes the lead vocal was way too loud. That has been much better lately. However I still hear the volume come up as the night goes on where the instrumentation gets louder that the vocal. Guitar player and bass player (brothers) don't adhere all the time to their own philosophy. Its really a problem and sad especially with a band that really does have talent. Unless we are playing a bigger venue that mikes the amps for us we don't because the mixing board is too small. If it gets to loud I just put in my ear plugs and play to the band not the audience. I hate that but at lease they know I'm there. You can check out the band at our web site www.michaelanthonypratt.com

[Chris Walke]

I find the lead guitar bashing so interesting here, because as I've stated before, all the lead players I've worked with have a great ear for musical styles and a respect for the other musicians they are working with. So...who ARE you playing with?? And why?? Not that I haven't heard "a million" lead guitarists who play too loud and too much. But I choose not to work with them.

And THIS is interesting too - according to b0b's poll from a few weeks back, the most common instrument that the psg players who responded USED to play....electric lead guitar. I'm a lead guitarist first, pedal steel guitarist second. But I'm trying to change that.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

[Chris Walke]

Also - not that there are many psg players in Chicago (especially not the 'burbs), but I've had a few soundmen make the comment about the "workable" tone I get. When I ask what they like about it, they say that whenever they encounter steel guitars (again, a fairly rare thing) the tone tends to be shrill and the players tend to peak their volume too loud.

[Gary Lee Gimble]

maybe it is time to give it a rest.

Larry,
Your comment above suggests a firm decision has yet to be made. Having said that, lets looky here...Since 1998 you've posted 3K+ comments, of which, 98% makes reference to tone, tone to the bone, more gear, push pull and more push pull. I really can't believe you're gonna throw in the towel. Larry, play hard ball, directly or indirectly. If said guitar player is acting out, simply walk up to his set up and start pulling chords, turning knobs to )o( and maybe disconnecting the juice. Or, you can do a Danny Gatton trick. While no one is looking, hook up to his source of power, a contraption which will cause his stuff to short out simply by a flip of a switch located by your finger tips. Danny had this arrangement when there were empty seats during the last set; he wanted to pack up and go as the club owner insisted continued music as per contract. Guess what, Danny got his way and you can to. If you prefer the direct approach, you may need to enlist some back up in case things get ugly. Our mutual friend Wayne Franco holds a 5th degree black belt in the art of Kimchee, he'd love the job. Bottom line Larry, don't wuss out...

[Larry Behm]

Gary you have some interesting thoughts here, but that is just not me. It took a lot to just walk out because I am loyal to the other band mates and the patrons of the VFW. BUT everyone, including me, has to draw their line in the sand, I drew mine.

I am going back and play for 5 more weeks until my 6 week RV road trip. Come mid Nov when I get back I will re-assess.

Playing louder that one needs to is not honoring and valuing the people you are playing for when they have cotton in their ears, or step out into the next room. This is not a concert, they are not guitar goupies, just folks who like to talk with their friends and dance up a storm. It should be about providing THEM that opportunity.

This is a lesson for all of us. Playing jobs are at an all time low, we should be doing everything we can to save the ones we have.

Bob please close this thread as per my request, we have beat this one up enough.

Larry Behm

[chris ivey]

the other band members must notice it also. is there a bandleader who could request that the guy not play like a jerk?