That OTHER Sound

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 12 Jun 2003 11:55 am

Emmons push-pulls do have "that sound"; I have experienced it ('66 Emmons). Mr. Carl Dixon has refered to the distinctive sound of the Rickenbacher bakelite as having a "moan". I cannot detect this in my post war 8-string bakelite.

Do any other brand of pedal guitars have a desireable elusive sound that is not present in some like models? If so, we might refer to it as "that other sound.

Rick

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 12 Jun 2003 12:02 pm

..I've heard steel sounds described as a "whine"....now as a "moan"...do any of them "p!ss and moan", or should that be in the "Steel Players" category?

...crying steel guitars.. Or purring, wailing, screaming, screeching, bellowing, singing, humming (single coil pickups only)...[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 12 June 2003 at 01:12 PM.]

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 12 Jun 2003 8:04 pm

Bigsby. Sho-Buds are pretty distinctive.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 12 Jun 2003 8:16 pm

ZB Custom. Sho-Bud.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 13 Jun 2003 5:55 am

Fender steels had a totally different sound and, since nobody has mentioned them, I will.

My three favorite vintage sounds are
Emmons p/p
ZB Custom
Sho-Bud
(more or less in that order)

All are different and I hear a little bit of each in my Fessenden guitar. That's why I play it most often these days.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 13 Jun 2003 6:24 am

<img src=http://home.hvc.rr.com/jsganz/Sho~Bud.jpg>

One of the best "other sounds" I can think of!!!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 13 Jun 2003 7:16 am

Ditto

Tommy Minniear · Post by **Tommy Minniear** » 13 Jun 2003 7:52 am

Agreed!

Tommy Minniear

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 13 Jun 2003 8:06 am

Thats the one Jay. I've got it's sister over here in Buffalo. Awesome sounding steel.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 13 Jun 2003 8:52 am

...what I'm hearing is, whether you want "that sound" or "that other sound", get it while you can, 'cause they ain't makin' it anymore...

...there can be no question that Sho-Bud consistently made the most beautiful looking guitars...

Gary Preston · Post by **Gary Preston** » 13 Jun 2003 6:42 pm

gentlemen i have a beutiful ''sho-bud'' that
i had built back in 1977 and she is still doing great today,and still soungs good also. i take good care of her !! G.P.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 13 Jun 2003 7:00 pm

What's wrong, I agree with everybody! Yes,
These are great "Other sounds". And Pat Burns, I must say you are correct, I wish you weren't but you are. You'd better gettum' while there hot! These great classic sounds aren't being made anymore. Sho-Bud,Z-B, Bigsby, all very good "other sounds". But Sho-bud wins the beauty contest, Z-B's aren't very ugly either, but then, I seldom see a bad Bigsby------>
Jay Gantz, I need you to do my photography! You do some great work. You need to put out a "Steel Guitar Calender".
looks like you have the guitars to do it with too!

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 13 Jun 2003 7:21 pm

JAY: Did you have to post those pictures? I won't sleep at all tonight. I've played an Emmons PP for many years and I love it. However I bought a near mint 1977 Sho-Bud Super Pro just before Christmas and I find myself playing it more and more. (not that it matters but it's a 1978) Both steels have different tones but both are great.

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 14 Jun 2003 8:46 am

I'm with Bobbe on the steel calender idea. I think every steel player will want one. I know I do.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 14 Jun 2003 9:28 am

Bobbee's Pics arent to bad either over at SGN
maybe some close ups and you'll have the SGN calender ready
J Ganz's pics are Xcellent without a doubt

R. E. Klaus · Post by **R. E. Klaus** » 14 Jun 2003 7:07 pm

'73 MSA and Millennium

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 14 Jun 2003 8:16 pm

what other sound?...

don`t kill me,just kiddin`

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Travis Bolding · Post by **Travis Bolding** » 15 Jun 2003 12:10 am

If a Push Pull is the 'Be all - End all' of PSG tone (and I agree that, in the right hands, there is something magical about them) why aren't they still being produced? Someone with the knowledge, know-how, expertise, and "ear" should be designing a new run of PP's. Bobbe, are you listening...?

~~ Travis

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 15 Jun 2003 12:29 am

Bobbe -

Have you ever seen G. Gordon Liddy's "Stacked and Packed" calendar? Nubile babes posing with guns. That concept might work with steel guitars, and you've already got a head start.

C#

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 15 Jun 2003 5:29 am

Travis,
push pulls are simply too expensive to make.There is too many parts in it.And to tell you the truth, even if someone would make a new push pull (Zum,Mullen etc...)I would still prefer an old restored Emmons.There is just something about those old guitars that new ones don`t have.There will never be another push pull Emmons or great Sho~Bud FT or another Bigsby, and you better get them while you can and if you can.

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Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 15 Jun 2003 7:03 am

Damir,
We have to carefully define 'too expensive'.

With Franklins and MSA Millenniums (or is that Millennia?) going for $5000-6000, I have no doubt that an exact replica of the classic Emmons push-pull could be made from scratch and still be competitive in that price range. But lets be realistic. MOST steel players prefer a newer guitar. The market for a push-pull is only a small fraction of the market for pedal steels. I love old Emmons guitars with all my heart and will never sell my 12-string, but the fact is that there are still quite a few of them floating around. Granted the price is increasing, but an immaculate push-pull in good working order can still be bought. I am certain that anyone who is willing to pay $2000-3000 (maybe a bit more for special features, maybe a bit less for one that is not so perfect) can get one. I don't think anyone would consider tooling up for the small market that can't be filled by vintage instruments already available. The only reason they'd be too expensive would be compared to the used market. You couldn't make money selling new ones for the price one can buy a 'pre-owned' guitar.

That's my take on it.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 15 Jun 2003 10:01 am

Larry What you're saying is the Beast( the 12 string P/P, some of you might not know who the Beast is)doesn't want to come back to me? Joe[This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 15 June 2003 at 11:05 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 15 Jun 2003 10:16 am

You got that right, Joe
He's happy right where he is.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 15 Jun 2003 1:37 pm

Well,if someone makes a push pull it would be a new guitar,right?It would be a new push pull.Maybe push pulls are old and maybe some people don`t like them but if you have one for sale I know one thing,it will sell quick.I don`t know anything about cost involved into making a steel guitar,I only said what I`ve heard from some competent people in Nashville who are in steel guitar business,and thats what they said.Would I pay $6.000,00 for a great looking and restored to like new condition Emmons push pull?Yes I would.Would I pay $6.000,00 for other new guitar?No,I would not.

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Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 15 Jun 2003 5:44 pm

I've never seen a pedal steel I would pay $6000 for. PERIOD.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps