2nd String Lower Question

[Tim Konecky]

I'm thinking that I might just tune that D just in the interim until I can pick up a mechanical half stop. I'm not even sure what to do with that C# yet anyway. Seems like there are some pretty cool possibilities with that D there.

[Lane Gray]

I'd be lost without C# AND the D.
Here's two uses of C#. Experienced players could substitute bar slants, but I'm no Lloyd.
First, "The Emmons Cross." Check out the 3rd bar of intro, at 5 or six seconds in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFj680v ... ata_player
Also, pedaling into or out of unison like around 2:00 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8knZVuv ... ata_player
(I modify that lick by going back to unison on the third, and and releasing A and taking 2 to D just as it hits the V chord. I've played that lick so long that I thought it was on the record that way.)

[b0b]

That's cool, Lane, but it's a lot easier if the D# to C# is on pedal 0 or a dedicated lever, where you don't have a "notch" in the middle of the travel.

[Lane Gray]

I have not felt or heard a notch at D if I'm on the way to C# in several years. I just keep moving.
I've thought about the Crawford/ Bethel 2nd string D, but don't recall where they put the D# lever. I also don't know where I'd put 1 to G, since RKL on Terry's guitar takes 2 down to C# and 6 to F# and I drop 6 and raise 1 there.

[b0b]

Lane: If you can't feel a notch at D, how do you stop there?

[Lane Gray]

OK, B0b, you caught me with imprecise speech (it's fair, I do it to others: thinking about what one said often helps clarify it).
I should say that I found little difficulty in training myself to ignore it if I don't need D right now. I notice the notch when I need it and don't when I don't.

[Andy DePaule]

For what it's worth, I've used the second string tuned to open C# for years.
I always raised it to D and Eb.
Never have had a half stop that felt strong or right.
I just have each of those on different levers and like it that way.

Even if I had a 2nd string tuned to D# like most steelers, I'd still want those changes on different levers.

Weldon Myrick also tunes that string to C# but I think you could tell I was not him kind of quickly!......Ha ha ha

Having the 2nd string in C# gives a lot of neat stuff with the 2nd & 5th string playing together.
Also very cool with the E's lowered to Eb you get some nice stuff using the chromatic strings to do diatonic runs up and down the scales.

Well that's my 2¢ worth!.... Or maybe worth less?

[Micky Byrne]

An agreement from me here with Bobby. I too find the D more usefull than the C#. On my Carter uni...I have a super gadget made by Forumite Richard Burton who has already put some postings on this thread. It is fitted on the underside near the left knee, and the D pull can be altered in seconds, but I never have to do that There is absoulutely NO overshoot on the D lower.Richard has also converted the knee levers on my Sho-Bud uni, so the LKL and RKR "tear drops" are now "Flags" The tear drop knees looked good, but were never too comfortable catching you on the knee bone. Keep at it Richard old chap

Micky "scars" Byrne U.K.

[Fred Glave]

Here's a thought: I keep my hex tuner on string one because I like to get a G sometimes and a G# at other times. Since there is no half stop and I don't like half stops I tune up or down depending on the song and plus I don't really do it very often. For those who don't like half stops and want the C# on string 2 this could also be an option. It's only a half step change and it only takes a second. Ideally a dedicated lever would be better for me but I have to work with what I have.

[Andy DePaule]

I changed my Tuning two months ago to raise the 1st & 2nd strings on my third pedal to G# & E.
Playing those in unison with strings 3 & 4 is really fun and a neat sound.
Because my 2nd is at C# to start, the pull is 3 half tones and kind of extreme but sound very cool.
I wanted to change the 7th String from F# to G# on that pedal but didn't have enough pull rods... Will do it later.

You can see here how I have the two changes on the 2nd string on separate knee levers. Combining the 2nd string D pull with the E to F# seems to work well for me.

I'd like to add a fifth pedal some time in the future and move the low B down to G# change to that pedal and separate it from the other two changes I now have on that 4th pedal, but no hurry....
As of now I am really enjoying the whole tuning just about where it is.

I'd also like to move the A&B pedals to Pedal 2 & 3 and the 3rd pedal changes to the 1st pedal position because I think there would be some nice things that could be done combining the B to C# change with the first two string raises.
But that really takes such a long time and so much messing around to get it all tweaked in just right. Maybe later!

[Richard Sinkler]

I have to say that I probably use the C# as much as the D. I just wish I could mount one of the positive stops on my Carter. The one Michael Yahl sells would work great, except the piece I would have to put in my bellcrank, where the rod goes through is too big. His is 1/4' diameter and the slots in the Carter bellcrank is 3/16".

[Frank Montmarquet]

Any U12 players find the 2nd D#->C# useful when it's on the E->D# lever? I have seen some U-12 are setup that way.

[Brint Hannay]

Andy, I think you've got some good ideas there.

Looking at it, I think if it were me I might move the 9th string D raise from LKR to the RKR lever. That way you would have voicings with both high and low D notes in the same place, and your LKR would give you the 9th string C# and the 2nd string D#(Eb) simultaneously, which gives a nice C#m9. Just a thought.

[Andy DePaule]

Thanks Brint,
That is something I'd never thought of.
It makes for good logic and when I get back to my guitar I will try it out.
Andy