Lower E's on the Right!!!??

Kev Conlon · Post by **Kev Conlon** » 13 Aug 2013 12:59 am

I've noticed that David Hartley (among others, I'm sure) lowers his E's on the RKL, and wondered whether it might be worth a try?
What are the pros and cons?
....all opinions welcome

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 13 Aug 2013 1:22 am

Kev,

I think you mean "lowers" the Es on RKL. (Does he raise them on RKR?) Per the lowering: many threads on the subject of whether to lower on RKL or LKR. Speaking as one who lowers on RKL, the advantage for me is that I tend to use that lower with various pedal combinations, and it's more comfortable to have my left leg free while holding the Es down. The advantage to lowering the Es on LKR is that, assuming you raise the Es with LKL, you would never use those change together, so you don't "lose" the other change on the knee (the way, for example, if you lower Es on the right, you can't make a chromatic lick dropping E to D# with RKL, holding the D# while playing the unison on string 2, and then lowering that to D [and perhaps on to C#] with RKR).

Now, if David does indeed also raise the Es on the right (presumably RKR), that would just seem to me to be a matter of personal preference. Main consideration would be putting a change on LKL that is useful with the A, and possibly the B pedal.

Dan

Kev Conlon · Post by **Kev Conlon** » 13 Aug 2013 1:29 am

Hi Dan
....whoops...you're right....we're talking about lowering here.

Douglas Schuch · Post by **Douglas Schuch** » 13 Aug 2013 2:34 am

Kev,

There was a long and very interesting discussion of this a number of years ago on the forum, with both Paul Franklin and Buddy Emmons contributing. You can find it here:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=29594

Tim Konecky · Post by **Tim Konecky** » 13 Aug 2013 6:26 am

Thanks for sharing Doug! That was a fun read! Seems it got a little heated in that discussion.

Kev Conlon · Post by **Kev Conlon** » 13 Aug 2013 6:29 am

.....It most certainly did!!
Thanks anyway Doug

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 13 Aug 2013 7:48 am

FYI, ShoBud standard setup for many years was E>F @ LKL and E>D# @ RKL. A number of Alaskan pedal steelers have this setup...

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 13 Aug 2013 7:55 am

" E>F @ LKL and E>D# @ LKL."?

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 13 Aug 2013 8:13 am

I did it on the LKR for 16 years and one day switched to RKL. It only took me a short while to get used to it so it's just a matter of where you want it.I will add that for some it could, due to leg/knee issues be better one way than the other.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Aug 2013 1:58 pm

Every person's "vocabulary" of combinations and licks dictates what they can do, and vice versa.
I dig the tritone resolve of 5A#/8 to 5/8D#Â², that works best for me having them on LKV and LKR respectively.
I also use the 6th lower AND the 2nd lower together with the D# lever (but rarely at the same time Â³), so they must both ride on the opposite leg from the D# lever. Since I use all 3 levers that don't hit the Ds get used with the D# lever, having D# on the LKR makes sense.
My Uni combines the D# lever and the F lever on one lever at RKL, the A# lever is LKL rear, the C# lever is LKL front and the F# lever (6th lower) is LKR front, so everything works together.

Â¹By A# I mean lowering the Bs to A#
Â²By D# I mean lowering the Ds
Â³I can hit RKL with the leg, strike string two and pull the right hand down and pull RKR manually as 6 sustains, or the other way 'round, but that's a pain. I only do that when I feel like showing off.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 13 Aug 2013 2:11 pm

I like them on opposite legs. I can make the change from D# to F very smoothly, and quickly, with no pause in the middle of the change, at E, as one knee moves between levers.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 13 Aug 2013 2:19 pm

If you bought an MSA from about 1970-71` until about 85 or so, your guitar came factory with The E-Eb lower on RKR, and the E-F raise on the RKL.. They sold thousands, and most were sold through music stores in those days.. that was standard MSA for YEARS.. I find it interesting that so few players stuck with that set up... There are a few dozen around here that use that knee lever set up, but we are in a very tiny minority.. Seems like when guys sold their MSA steels, they just moved on from the "backward" lever set up that MSA used for many many years... Even today, most MSA guitars that fall into my clutches have been reversed from the lever set up they were shipped with...bob

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 13 Aug 2013 3:52 pm

i've always had day tuning on pedals 1 and 2
LKL lower 2nd string and 9
LKR E-F
RKL lower E's
RKR raise E-F#
thst's the basics...got other pedals and levers also.

all my steels are set that way cause i know how to use it that way. seems as natural (or more) than other setups. close to 40 yrs.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 13 Aug 2013 3:52 pm

Lowering the E's on the RKL is actually the correct place to have it !!!!!!!!!!

Bill Ladd · Post by **Bill Ladd** » 13 Aug 2013 6:15 pm

My first guitar had the E lowers on the RKL, that's how I learned.

My current guitar has the E lowers and raises on the left.

I kept it there 'cause I'm too lazy to switch it.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 13 Aug 2013 6:47 pm

All my guitars lower E's on RKL. My push-pull when I had it was the only guitar I ever had that had both knees on the left.

Bryant Aycock · Post by **Bryant Aycock** » 13 Aug 2013 7:39 pm

I lower my E to Eb on my RKL. Maybe a little unusual, but I raise my E to F# on my RKR. Since I never raise and lower at the same time, I like it on one knee. Works for me.

Andy DePaule · Post by **Andy DePaule** » 13 Aug 2013 9:08 pm

Maybe it depends on how long ago you started?
When I got my first steel, a S-10 Sho Bud it had just two knee levers both were on the right leg.
And it was the RKL that lowered the E's and RKR Lowered the 2nd and 9th strings.
I just got used to that way of using it.
I have had that on the LKR and it works well there too but I prefer it on the right. That is so my left leg is a little more free to work the pedals when I have the E's lowered for a long time.
In the end I think it only matters what you are used too or prefer.
Just my 2Â¢ worth....

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 14 Aug 2013 1:29 am

as mentioned, the Es to Eb lower was used, if not introduced, by Sho~Bud on RKL ( right knee left )
Buddy Emmons had his on LKR ( left knee right ) which became a mainstay for many
i personally prefer my E lever on RKL the Sho~Bud style since it frees my left leg & feet to be indepedent from that lever
the E lever is imo the most used lever
by having it on RKL, i find it handy to have it above my volume pedal - i find the 2 get along very well
your mileage may vary

a good point in that you can use the F lever ( E to F raise ) on LKL & the E lever on RKL alternatively
it's quite a useful harmonic movement