Ricks" and temperature

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 19 Sep 2000 9:37 am

As far back as I can remember, bakelite Ricks have been criticized for "detuning" with temperature change. Jerry Byrd was supposedly quoted once saying,

"The bakelite Rick gives the best sound I ever got, but I spent my life trying to keep it in tune."

And correctly so I must admit, after having mine now for several years.

Having said that, I am not convinced that it is necessarily the temperature changing the bakelite so much as it is the neck itself is warping more or less with temparature changes.

It is common knowledge that the neck on a Rick was the weakest "chain in the link". After much study and experimenting, I am embarking on a possible cure for this long standing tuning stability problem.

What has inspired me to do this is twofold:

1. The detuning dilemma itself, and

2. The impossible task of trying to find one of those great lap steel guitar stands that just about every music store in America sold back in the 50's. They just have vanished off the face of this earth. NO where can I find one!!!!

Because of my inablilty to find one of those real sturdy stands I have decided to build one. However, I am going a step further. I am going to build it in such a way as to hold that neck/body rigid as I can practically make it. In other words when finished, part of the stand will be an entegral part of the guitar.

Now before you "classic buffs" have a heart attack, I have designed it (on paper), in such a way as to not have to drill one single hole in the bakelite body, nor neck!! It also will be highly polished aluminum and the legs will screw into the aluminum frame similar to an old Fender steel guitar. The frame will NOT be a box nor a rectangle. It will follow basically the shape of the Rick, yet use all straight pieces.

I am very excited about this. I really believe with all my heart, IF, the neck can be prevented from bowing that a lot of that detuning will go away.

But even if not, the stand should be a very nice and esthetically pretty stand.

May our Lord bless my efforts,

carl

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 19 Sep 2000 9:53 am

Carl, I agree with you on the temperature issue: It's a non-issue. Bakelite has been (and still is being) used in situations with rather harsh temperature fluctuations, with success. Warping is the problem with those necks.

As of your stand... just a simple thought (and you might already have considered it): The smallest tension applied at the wrong spot may make your bakelite guitar just "tick" snapp

.
If you think to restain it from such small movements as slight neck warpage you will porbably apply some sort of preasure somewhere... BE CAREFUL, these guitars are harder to find than these stands!

And once on a stand, they tend to tip and fall too.

<hr>
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wayne yakes md · Post by **wayne yakes md** » 19 Sep 2000 1:10 pm

Bobby Garrett told me that he would sleep with his Bakelite when he was 12 years old just to keep it from detuning!

Jim Landers · Post by **Jim Landers** » 19 Sep 2000 1:28 pm

<SMALL>2. The impossible task of trying to find one of those great lap steel guitar stands that just about every music store in America sold back in the 50's. They just have vanished off the face of this earth. NO where can I find one!!!!</SMALL>

Carl, I have also been looking for one of those stands for ages, with no luck. In fact there was a pretty good discussion a few months ago here on No Peddlers, but nobody could tell me where to find one.

Well guess what?......Several weeks back, I bid on a 1940 National New Yorker on E-bay. I wound up getting the guitar, and when it arrived, packed inside the box with the guitar, was one of "those" stands.

The stand was in perfect condition except for a little surface rust, which cleaned up beautifully with steel wool. As far as the stability of those stands, it is very good. Of course it could be tipped over by someone bumping into it, but as far as playing on it, it is very stable.

I have several pictures of Sol Ho'opi'i where he has his guitar on a stand exactly like the one I got. Who knows?.......Maybe this one was his.

Now for the rest of the story. The New Yorker is a fabulous sounding guitar. I had a 50s something New Yorker several years ago, and it was'nt even in the same league with this 1940. Not even comparable!

I wonder why it is, that the more they "improved" on the old guitars, the worse they got?.........Somebody should have explained to the builders, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"!

Anyway, I thought I would just throw this useless bit of rambling into mix.

Jim

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 19 Sep 2000 4:14 pm

Jim,

So happy you got one of those stands. There were several models. The one that I liked best could be adjusted for sitting down or standing up and was very sturdy. Some of the others were light weight and not quite as sturdy.

As for the National New Yorker, I had one in the late 40's. And loved it. It was truly the best sounding one I ever heard. Sure wish I had never sold it.

God bless friend,

carl

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 19 Sep 2000 8:19 pm

Jim and Carl-
That makes three. I too had a National New Yorker, a black and white beauty.About 1938.
I wished I had kept it too, but had to trade it for my Double neck 8 string birdsyeye maple Vega.About 1940.
That was the only way I could afford to move up....al

Mike Black · Post by **Mike Black** » 20 Sep 2000 9:20 am

RJP · Post by **RJP** » 20 Sep 2000 12:28 pm

My bass player has one of these Rics and I do admit that tuning is a problem (I use open "E"). However, don't ask me if it's for sale; I think he wants to hold on to it.

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Ron Plichta

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Richard Vogh · Post by **Richard Vogh** » 24 Sep 2000 8:02 pm

Carl...

I'm still too new to this steel guitar stuff to be an expert on this particular subject, but it seems to me that leverage from the legs of your stand that you are designing could undo your gains at keeping the Rick from flexing. Legs on a non-level floor, leaning on the stand, bumping a leg, etc. would have tremendous leverage on the table surface of the stand, and likely would flex the guitar-holding surface slightly.

My suggestion: Use two horizontal layers, one above the other, in the stand. The top layer holds the guitar. The bottom layer holds the legs. Attach those two horizontal layers together at the ends, with short spacers between (to keep the centers from touching), so that when the lower layer flexes, the top layer does not flex. Another option might be joining the two layers through one large thin spacer only in the center, with the outer edges not touching.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 25 Sep 2000 5:50 am

Thanks Richard,

Your advice well received.

A bit of info. The wayI have designed the stand, there should be little flex from the legs. And the amount of neck bow on a Rick is soooo severe, that what little movement there would be, would be such a vast impovement.

On a Rick, you can strum the open tuning, and simply move the neck up and with respect to the body and anyone can immediately hear the change in pitches of the strings.

The stand I am building will hold the neck to body perfectly in line. In other words the stand, neck and body become one unit for all practical purposes.

I have felt for a long time that Rickenbacher should have used a truss rod system to hold that delicate neck straight.

Time will tell if I achieve my objective. If not, it was probably not meant to be.

God bless you,

carl