C6th setup opinions sought

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 5 Jun 2003 10:21 am

I am looking forward to getting my first D10 soon. I learned (a little) on the E9 neck many years ago with Mike Idhe at Berklee, but I am really looking forward to diving into the C6 neck for the many extended chord voicings available. I have played a number of styles of guitar and am interested in doing some mainstream jazz playing. I love what BE, Bud Charleton, Curly, Doug, Jim Cohen
( who I saw a few weeks ago here in Boston, great stuff!) and the guys get from the horn.

I am swimming in the many possibilities for a 4 knee C6 setup. It seems everyone has something different. I welcome hearing players experiences and opinions on the various options- for example, the change I've seen on Buddy Cage and Doug's setup on pedal 4 using strings 9 8 7 6 creating the F A C E to Eb Bb Db F change...Although I am a true greenhorn on the neck, I do have a good bit of theory background, so chordwise and application-wise, I won't be totally in the dark.Thanks very much, this forum is a great resource!

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 5 Jun 2003 10:33 am

John,
Do yourself a favor and start with the four knee levers from Buddy Emmons' setup.
Move Left to Lower
Right to Raise
Right Knee levers move 3rd string
Left knee levers move 4th string

Look at chords in the keys of
C (no pedals, root on 7 or 10th string),
D (P5, root on 10),
F (Ma7 w/No Pedals, Dom family chords with P6, root on 9), and
A (P8, root on 10 and

-- also Am (No Pedals, root on 4 and

.

Examine what alterations and extensions arise from raising or lowering the 3rd (and possibly 7th) and 4th (and possibly 8th). Once you're comfortable with that, start looking for other stuff. This is the meat of C6 and there's a LOT THERE.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 05 June 2003 at 11:41 AM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 5 Jun 2003 10:40 am

I would suggest you start with the standard setup and add knee levers 3 and 4 to C6.

In this way you will raise and lower the 3rd string with the right knee levers; and raise and lower the 4th string with the left knee levers.

With the standard floor pedals; the above 4 knee levers; AND your ear for chords and theory, it will permit you to quickly find many of those chords you hear from the C6 vituosos you mentioned.

As you gain familiarity, do not hesitate to experiment with pedal/knee lever combinations; paying particular attention to string grips:

IE, pick strings 3, 5 and 8 or 4, 6 and 9 (or 10) and so on; instead of the normal 2, 3 and 4 type grip, etc. Doing this will "tune" your ear to this incredible pedal steel guitar tuning.

May Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 5 Jun 2003 1:33 pm

Gentlemen, many thanks for the suggestions!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Jun 2003 5:07 pm

Larry Bell makes a lot of sense. Pick Emmons (or one of the other pro's that you like), and just copy his setup. If you're just starting out...there is no need to get "fancy", or waste time "experimenting" by trying to include everything everybody else has.

Ten strings with 5 floor pedals, and 2 to 4 knee levers (of any setup) will keep you fully occupied for at least the next 10 years. As the old saying goes, "It ain't what you got...it's what you do with what you got!"

my2cents, anyway

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 5 Jun 2003 5:50 pm

Donny H, You're right on with supporting Larry's thoughts on Buddy's set up. How could you do better? I think Carl was saying the same thing, too. Everything is there!

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 5 Jun 2003 7:10 pm

JOHN, I experiment and change tunings as often as most guys change their pants,but even I have to agree with LARRY BELL on this one. Start out with a standard setup like Buddy Emmons'. That way there will be plenty of instructional material to help you through the early stages of learning! Its just good common sense!
~~W.C.~~

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Jun 2003 2:12 am

I couldn't agree more with the above mentioned knee levers for the 3rd and 4th strings. When I changed Steels to a D10 with these added knee levers ( thanks Joe Smith ) for the C6th rather than the single 3rd string lower it was like discovering the invention of COLD BEER !

Or maybe even 4 WHEEL DRIVE !( pun intended )

My Steel also has a left knee verticle for C6 which raises the 6th string a half tone. Also my right knee right raises both the 3rd and 7th string.

This may sound like a nutty statement but it hovers on insanity to try to play some of the things that we hear and want to play without these changes. If Buddy or Tommy or Paul or Doug ...etc...are using these changes , and we are attempting to play in their style and modes without them..then who's nuts ?

I hear many state that Steels with extended pedals and knee levers are not necessary..maybe a gimmick..I say..ok..maybe for you...afterall, these are PEDAL STEEL Guitars...I want it all....

Like Larry stated above..with these added changes ..its all right there in front of you..

I am not a seasoned pro..but rather a bandstand hack..but it sure is fun playing on the C6th neck .

TP ( not Tony Palmer , he plays RAP now )

Carter D10/9+8

PS..My top string is a D rather than a G[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 06 June 2003 at 03:34 AM.]

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 6 Jun 2003 5:12 am

Go with Emmons' set-up. b0b gave me this advice when I first came to the Forum, and it served me well!

After a while, I reversed the 'knees' (I move the 3rd string with my left, and the 4th with my right) - I found that the similarity to my E9 left 'knees' that I gained by so doing helped me a lot.

I have the same 'pulls', though.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 6 Jun 2003 9:19 am

If I were going to install a 5th knee lever on C6, it would be a LKV and it would lower the 5th string a whole tone.

To carry it to its ultimate, I would add a 2nd LKL and it would lower 2 a whole tone and raise 9 a whole tone. I would then "split" string 2 with pedal 6. A really great change, especially for "blues" type playing!

But for the beginner I would ONLY advise the standard 5 pedals with the 4 knee lever setup; exactly like Buddy. I simply feel that IF the master does it, there has GOT to be a sound reason. For when the rest of us think of it, he has already forgotten it.

On second thought; as Jimmy Day and Roger Crawford have so aptly said,

"He aint forgot NUTHUN!!!"

carl

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 6 Jun 2003 1:13 pm

I agree, Carl - that whole-step lower is on my new guitar, giving me five 'knees' on C6.

I can't wait for it to arrive!!!