If you were a new player what PSG would you start on?

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 15 Jul 2013 7:29 am

If you were a new player just starting out and knowing what you know now.
Would you start out on a D-10, 12 String Universal, Ext E9th or S-10

Don Poland · Post by **Don Poland** » 15 Jul 2013 4:36 pm

Interesting that the S10 outnumbers the D10 by nearly 4:1

I wonder how many that answered this actually own a D10 and wish they had just went ahead and purchased an S10 instead.

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 15 Jul 2013 5:55 pm

Bill L. Wilson · Post by **Bill L. Wilson** » 15 Jul 2013 6:50 pm

I started pedal steel on an MSA S-10, but now I have an Emmons D-10, and I never play the C6th. This Emmons is what was available when I had the money to buy, or I would have bought an S-10. However having the 6th neck is good if for some reason I decide to take it up.

Jeff Metz Jr. · Post by **Jeff Metz Jr.** » 15 Jul 2013 8:35 pm

Knowing What I know now, I would choose the 12 string. Its got a lot of possibilities that the s10 doesn't. You can even get a lot of the c6 changes if your using the right copedent.

Niels Andrews · Post by **Niels Andrews** » 15 Jul 2013 8:58 pm

Without a question Universal S-12.

Matthew Beall · Post by **Matthew Beall** » 16 Jul 2013 3:53 am

I'm new to Pedal Steel and just took delivery yesterday of my Williams S12. I play a little C6 lap steel already, and the Universal seems logical to me. I will say that my right leg gets tired of holding in the "D" lever. I know there are locks for this, but I wanted to try it without.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 16 Jul 2013 4:42 am

I would start off just the way I started off, by playing someone else's guitar. Then I got a Maverick. I'd do it again.
Just like driving a car, start off with someone else's if possible (dad's), then get my own junker and go from there.
Now, if I had the dough, it might be a different story.

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 16 Jul 2013 5:10 am

Poor old D-10 is taking a whipping.
In modern times I guess it's the weight and less call for C6th.
You can get a lot of 6th stuff out of an S-10.
I like the S-12 Uni in split cases.
Anyone know why C6th is sometimes called the 2 week neck?

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 16 Jul 2013 5:26 am

Surprising that more than twice as many people would choose S10 over Unis and D10's especially knowing the limitations. That would be like having half a guitar to me.

I expect the survey reflects a lot of older players and the weight issue.

My vote was for Uni, but I'm gonna have a 6th tuning of some sort, be it Uni B or D10 C. The exception would be a modified 6 string pedal tuning for rock and blues stuff, otherwise I might very well give it up altogether.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 16 Jul 2013 6:28 am

Knowing what I know now, and the bands I play in now, I would probably go with a U12. I love the C6th, but I have not really used it more than maybe 30% of a gig, and very basic stuff at that. I just never put the time in that was required to become really good at it. The U12 would have enough of the 6th stuff to get me by in the bands I currently play in. Now, if the question was "if you could go back", I would have spent the time really learning the C neck

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 17 Jul 2013 10:09 am

i voted D10 & do NOT regret it since 2 necks are better than 1

Jack Aldrich · Post by **Jack Aldrich** » 17 Jul 2013 10:20 am

I'd start out with a E9 S10 with 3 pedals and 3 knees. I started in 1975 on an Emmons student model with 3pedals and 1 knee, which I rented from West LA Music. It only took a month until I realized that I needed more knee levers. Then I got my ShoBud Pro I with 4 knee levers, which I played for 10 years. Most of the tab I learned on and the instruction material I bought were for a 3/3 setup. The 4th lever, LKR, raised the E's to F's, which, with the A pedal gave me the first inversion at the 3rd fret. Very useful. - Jack

Duane Brown · Post by **Duane Brown** » 17 Jul 2013 10:46 am

I'd do it again just like the first time. My first steel was an Emmons student model with 3x1. When I was fairly proficient with that setup, I went to a D-10 Shobud Pro II with 8x4. It was the worst sounding excuse for a steel I ever have heard but it allowed me to get a rudimentary knowledge of C6 and I learned how to use the 3 new knee levers(D#-D/C#, E-F, F#-G) on it.

My best learning experience came when I bought Billy Poteet's '68 Emmons and could clearly hear what I was playing. I added knee levers as I found them necessary until I ran out of room and had to stop at 8X9.

All of my students have started on S-10's. I would never have a student start with a D-10 because it's such a daunting instrument and seemed impossible until I was able to break it down into small bites-just like eating an elephant.

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 17 Jul 2013 11:21 am

A lot of these replies don't make much sense to me. The question was, what kind of steel "would you start on?"

I have played D-10s for years and play C-6th often on gigs - I don't like to be without it though I have an S-10 for gigs I need to fly a steel to. But I started on a single-neck E-9, and recommend that to beginners if they ask - I think one tuning and 10 strings to start with is overwhelming enough, and that's what most teaching material is geared towards, so I agree with Duane there. Some time spent learning that will give someone enough knowledge to know whether they might want to go to some kind of extended 12-string, or universal, or double-neck or whatever.

After all the question is not, "what is your ideal steel now"?, and to me there's no logic at all in assuming that D-10 players somehow have regrets because they might still start on a single neck.

Just MHO of course.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 17 Jul 2013 1:36 pm

Ken Metcalf wrote:If you were a new player just starting out and knowing what you know now.
Would you start out on a D-10, 12 String Universal, Ext E9th or S-10

I think they key part of this is the "knowing what you know now" statement. I know now that I would not necessarily need to haul around a D10 if I knew I would be playing as little, and as basic C6th that I now play. At this stage of the game though, I would never switch. When I first started out 42 years ago, I had heard of a universal tuning, but it was the Bb6 that Reece was using and I had no interest in that. I had never heard of an E9/B6 Universal until years later. Although, I did start on an S10, but only because I was 17 and could not afford a D10, or I would have gotten a D10 right from the start.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 17 Jul 2013 2:20 pm

Knowing what I know now, and having the resources I do now, I would start on the double neck. when I started, I was playing on an 8 string dobro tune to G 6, so I already had the back neck, and wanted to learn that front neck country stuff

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · Post by **Jean-Sebastien Gauthier** » 18 Jul 2013 1:41 pm

I would say a 6 strings lap steel tuned in C6, if you get good with palm blocking, slant and all the technics and have a good knowledge of C6, E9 pedal steel will be a piece of cake! So then you can look for a D10 or D8 and use both neck!

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 Jul 2013 5:36 pm

'the two week neck' probably got it's name from the tongue in cheek ,'play that back neck anymore and i'm givin' ya two weeks notice'

so i'm choosing a d10 in the poll.

David Cubbedge · Post by **David Cubbedge** » 19 Jul 2013 4:58 am

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 19 Jul 2013 6:43 am

I can't get through a night without my C6.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 19 Jul 2013 8:49 am

I have a D-10 and USE both necks. I can't imagine not having a D-10. However, if I were just starting out now I would go with a Uni 12.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 Jul 2013 9:31 am

I answered U-12 because that's what I started out with. But I never learned the B6 side of the tuning. For me, the big advantage of the U-12 is the extra bass strings.

Here is something played primarily on those strings. This can not be played (at least this way,) on a 10 string, or even a 12 string with an extended E9. It can only be played on a U-12 that has a change that drops the Low B string to A.

http://pedalsteelmusic.com/?p=502

Dennis Russell · Post by **Dennis Russell** » 19 Jul 2013 10:05 am

I started playing in December 2011 on a S10 Marlen pull-release, which, because of some idiosyncrasies with my particular instrument, was a nightmare for me as a newbee to keep in tune and properly adjusted. A few months in, I went to Steel Guitars of North County and upgraded to an ETS S10. In retrospect, Jim Palenscar, while not steering me towards one guitar or another, seemed to be hinting that since I was starting out, the U12 might be a better choice because of the versatility. (And shop at Jim's store. What a nice guy and what an expert!)
My criteria for buying an S10 instead of a U12 at the time was that I already had several books and educational resources for E9. Now that I understand somewhat how the pedal steel works, I'm not so afraid of the U12.
A year and a half later, I think the U12 would have been a better choice, as I would like to have the lower range, and, looking at the copedent, it seems like it indeed would be more versatile as the band I'm in starts working in more western-swing tunes.
I don't think my back could toting a double-neck around.
Right now I'm saving up to add a U12 to the quiver.

Bill Howard · Post by **Bill Howard** » 24 Jul 2013 6:05 pm

Pete Finney wrote:A lot of these replies don't make much sense to me. The question was, what kind of steel "would you start on?"

I have played D-10s for years and play C-6th often on gigs - I don't like to be without it though I have an S-10 for gigs I need to fly a steel to. But I started on a single-neck E-9, and recommend that to beginners if they ask - I think one tuning and 10 strings to start with is overwhelming enough, and that's what most teaching material is geared towards, so I agree with Duane there. Some time spent learning that will give someone enough knowledge to know whether they might want to go to some kind of extended 12-string, or universal, or double-neck or whatever.

After all the question is not, "what is your ideal steel now"?, and to me there's no logic at all in assuming that D-10 players somehow have regrets because they might still start on a single
neck.

Just MHO of course.

Pete your a great REALLY Country steel player.. ILove this clip of the Waltz you saved for Me...
Here it is Enjoy folks great pedal steel thank you pete!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDSjXDC8lZ4

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Re: If you were a new player what PSG would you start on?

starting out

Great advice great player