D 12: Why didn't they catch on?

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 16 Jul 2013 10:12 am

And where do the additional strings go? Two on the bottom of E9, and two on the top of C6?

Ward Orsinger · Post by **Ward Orsinger** » 16 Jul 2013 2:23 pm

Nice full fat chord voices, but sure changed my hand technique; blocking etc. Went back to ten-string 2 years ago--like playin' a banjo now--love it!

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 16 Jul 2013 3:02 pm

Thanks Ward.

Can you have a standard Emmons set up for ten of the strings on each neck? And then add two, high or low, on each neck? Or do you have to put the two additional strings somewhere amidst the ten usual strings?

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 16 Jul 2013 3:29 pm

If it were mine, I would make the front neck ext. E9 by adding the low G# and E in positions 11 & 12.

On the C neck, probably G E D on the top three then follow on down with the standard stuff.

John McClung here plays a D12 I think, so you might ask him. Probably others as well. Also check the copedents listed in the LINKS area above.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 16 Jul 2013 3:36 pm

Thanks Jerry.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 16 Jul 2013 3:37 pm

Most people couldn't afford a forklift

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 16 Jul 2013 3:38 pm

Or back surgery.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 16 Jul 2013 4:03 pm

Hard to tune, hard to carry, and hard to play. They're also more costly! Considering that most players buy them for big chords, IMHO, I've heard a lot of 12-string players, but none of them played any more or better jazz and pop stylings than Curls did on a 10-string.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 16 Jul 2013 4:20 pm

I've seen 5 D-12 in my life. 2 MSAs, 2 Emmons and a Bud (I think).
None of these have a reputation for lightweight. Now make the cabinet bigger, add more of everything metal. You're gonna have to WANT to schlep that thing around. My next axe will be an SD-12.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 16 Jul 2013 4:38 pm

Why are they harder to tune? And wouldn't the basic ten strings on each neck be as easy to play as a D 10?

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 16 Jul 2013 6:06 pm

The weight and cost. I actually would like to have a D12. I would also put a low G# and E on the E9, but the C6, I would have the D on string 1, a B on string 2, a G on string 3 and on down the line as normal for the rest of the strings. That would give me the same order of things on the top strings that I have on the E9.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 16 Jul 2013 6:35 pm

Richard and Jerry,

You're making me want one just for the extended E9.

Of course, once I got it set up I'd never move it. That would be like moving a Hammond B3.

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 16 Jul 2013 7:20 pm

Why are they harder to tune?

The changer axle is longer than that of a
10-string, causing it to be more prone to
flex from the tension of the strings (if,
indeed, it has no support other than at
each of its ends).
Also, more strings means more
tension on the axle.
~Rw

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 16 Jul 2013 7:46 pm

Thanks, Russ.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 16 Jul 2013 10:32 pm

I played a keyless Williams D-12 crossover for a few years. It was interesting, but it didn't make me play any better.

Changing strings was a real chore.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 17 Jul 2013 4:21 am

That does indeed sound interesting. I never imagined a keyless one.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 17 Jul 2013 5:05 am

That's why MSA used two axle supports on the 12 and 1 on the 10

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 17 Jul 2013 5:08 am

There is an MSA Classic D-12 currently listed on e-bay.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 17 Jul 2013 5:21 am

Did Sho-Buds have two axle supports?

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 17 Jul 2013 9:07 am

I think Buddy cage plays a double 12.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 17 Jul 2013 10:40 am

The last I heard, Cage was playing a D12. But, a very basic one. It only had like 94 pedals and 267 knee levers.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 17 Jul 2013 10:47 am

And it's double strung like a mandolin.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 17 Jul 2013 12:22 pm

I have a Dekley D12/11. I used to have 12 strings on C6, but I broke a tuner once and just decided that I liked it better that way. (plus it's way too hard to change anything on my over loaded copedant...) It's always the HEAVIEST in show, but I just dwell on the thought that I could be a B3 player. I love it! I love what it's capable of! There is absolutely no tuning issues or cabinet drop whatsoever...probably because it's such a tank. It's nice to have both the D and the G on C6, but what I'm really more addicted to now is the low strings on E9! And no, I've never had any complaints about bar rubbing noise in the studio.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 17 Jul 2013 12:25 pm

The keyless Williams didn't weigh more than a standard D-10. With the crossover mechanism, each neck had 5 pedals and 5 knees - the equivalent of a 10+10 guitar.

I discovered that I can get everything I actually need on a single 8 with 5+5. Maybe that's why the D-12 never caught on. It's more guitar than is necessary.

Steve French · Post by **Steve French** » 17 Jul 2013 12:45 pm

Dave Ristrim was playing a Franklin D-12 when I worked with him years ago. Don't know if he still does...