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Topic: Playing steel through tube guitar amps -- EQ |
Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2013 9:39 am |
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For you guys who play your steels through tube guitar amps, how do you set your EQ? I have found that to get a satisfactory sound (to my ear), the bass needs to be dimed and the treble barely tweaked, if not off entirely. The mid pot (if applicable) will vary, to dial in the sweet spot.
I play a ‘73 push-pull D-10 with stock pickups through the Emmons volume pedal with the AB 500K pot. This seems to hold true for a variety of old and new Fender amps, a couple vintage Ampegs, and a Plush Super 450 that is similar to a Twin Reverb AB763.
There is a Mel Bay Productions interview with Chris Scruggs on YouTube where he is playing an old D-8 Fender (Dual Professional?) console into a Deluxe Reverb. About 28 seconds in, it clearly shows the bass all the way up and the treble all the way down.
Anyone else use similar settings while playing their steel through a tube guitar amp? |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 12 Jul 2013 5:27 pm
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Jack,
I can not answer your question, but I might can point you in a direction that will help, as I have been learning a bit about this. And maybe the techies will chime in. And, BTW, there is the simple answer (where to adjust the pots), and the complex one - understanding why it is so. Typical of me, I am drawn to the complex one.
As for EQing an amp, it is not so much a matter of tubes vs. non-tubes, as it is a question of what kind of "tone stack" is build into the amp, i.e., exactly what the knobs are doing.
You can search this info, and there is a lot of stuff out there, but one I find very interesting is a simple little app you can download here which actually shows you what the knobs are doing based on your type of amp (sorry - not one for Ampeg, but maybe you can learn what type of tone-stack it has:
http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/
If you play with this, for Fenders, you will discover that you get the flattest response by having the mid almost all the way up, the bass just cracked open, and the treble almost off - much like you describe. At this setting, the mid becomes a volume control more or less.
You can read some about the Fender tone stack here:
http://pickroar.com/1003/the-tone-stack-explained-in-english-for-humans/
and here:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/fender-alembic-bbe-tone-stack-explained-491699/
Of course, other amp makers may use different tone stacks, and new ones may actually have systems that do what most people think they do - bring up or down a specific range. I focused more on vintage Fender tone stacks as that is what I have. Anyway, hope it helps. Seems to me, you probably have the right idea, this maybe explains why.
PS (edited): The Chris Scruggs video, that amp does not have a Mid control. How it would be adjusted to get a flat response, or the best response to any player, would be different, and would depend on it's tone stack as well.
Doug
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jul 2013 8:44 pm
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I suspect the big difference comes from the 12s vs. our predilection for15s. The 15s top out frequency-wise at 2K-3K, and most of the 12s substantially higher.
The CENTER frequency of the Presence knob is around 4K, so we deliberately send sounds to the speaker that they transmit poorly. The 12s give us everything we send them: That means we'll have to subtract at the amp the stuff that the 15s subtracted.
Granted, this doesn't come from an engineer in a lab, or any kind of amp tech. Just a guy behind a steering wheel who likes using his brain ans his keyboard (so some of the amp guys need to tell me how I'm wrong, because this stuff is fascinating)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2013 8:41 am
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Doug -- Thanks for the very informative links. I am attempting to digest all of that information. I’m not a tech by any means, but I’m learning more and more. Especially from the guys on this Forum!
Lane -- I have found that with tube amps, my general premise of maximum bass and minimum treble applies with speakers as small as the 10” Eminence in a little Pro Junior, all the way up to a massive Peavey double 15” bass cabinet. With the two solid-state amps in my collection (Peavey LTD 400 w/D-130 & Polytone Mini-Brute II) this is not the case. Of course the LTD was marketed for steel, and the MB II for jazz guitar. The only two tube amps in my collection with a presence control (‘64 Bassman & ‘99 HR Deluxe), the presence seems to have very little effect on the steel.
By the way, does your rig have an autopilot so you don’t need to steer when you are typing? Or are you so proficient at steering with your knees that you can multitask. A good friend of mine professes to have at least 100,000 miles of driving while playing his accordion, steering with his knees. Just not behind an 18-wheeler! |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 15 Jul 2013 11:47 am
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| I don't know that you could make a general call on this, as I know of at least one legendary steeler who always set the knobs straight up, regardless of the amp, and always sounded perfect.... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Jul 2013 11:52 am
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Dave, on my LTD, all my knobs point straight up. I twisted the knobs til I found my sound: then removed the knobs and put them back on with the dot at 12 o'clock. I may decide to do that with the Fender Twin.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 15 Jul 2013 7:39 pm
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Autopilot's easy.I just set the cruise control and go take a nap.   |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 16 Jul 2013 1:27 am
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| I know b0b recommended starting with bass on full, then adding mid and treble to taste, so theres one! That makes sense for a tube amp biased for guitar, though I dont go to quite that extreme when using my Twin RI. More like Bass 8, Mid 5 or 6 and Treble around 3 or 2 (w Brite on). I often double on steel and guitar live thru a single channel SS amp (NV1000) and tend to compromise the eq for both. A little less 800 scoop and not as much bass as I would prefer for steel alone. |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 12:30 am PLUSH tone
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| Tube amplifier theorists, afficiandos, and pundits alike have confirmed, in separate tests, that putting a "HAMM'S....the beer refreshing!" sticker on your amplifier will give it that tingling, warm, PLUSH tone that you desire. |
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Daniel Policarpo
From:
Kansas City
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 3:13 am
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When it comes to tube amps, I generally set the controls pretty dark, compared to how I would have the controls set for, say a telecaster.
Last edited by Daniel Policarpo on 22 Jul 2013 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 5:24 am
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Steve,
Once had a Hamm’s decal on my Bassman, but when it finally fell off and was replaced with a Leinenkugel’s sticker, its tone improved immediately. |
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Daniel Policarpo
From:
Kansas City
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 6:56 am Re: PLUSH tone
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| Steven Paris wrote: |
| Tube amplifier theorists, afficiandos, and pundits alike have confirmed, in separate tests, that putting a "HAMM'S....the beer refreshing!" sticker on your amplifier will give it that tingling, warm, PLUSH tone that you desire. |
All I have is Pabst.  |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 8:13 am
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| We want it to taste great AND be more filling! |
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Daniel Policarpo
From:
Kansas City
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Posted 22 Jul 2013 2:04 pm
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 [/img] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 24 Jul 2013 4:34 pm Re: Playing steel through tube guitar amps -- EQ
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
For you guys who play your steels through tube guitar amps, how do you set your EQ? I have found that to get a satisfactory sound (to my ear), the bass needs to be dimed and the treble barely tweaked, if not off entirely. The mid pot (if applicable) will vary, to dial in the sweet spot.
I play a �73 push-pull D-10 with stock pickups through the Emmons volume pedal with the AB 500K pot. This seems to hold true for a variety of old and new Fender amps, a couple vintage Ampegs, and a Plush Super 450 that is similar to a Twin Reverb AB763.
There is a Mel Bay Productions interview with Chris Scruggs on YouTube where he is playing an old D-8 Fender (Dual Professional?) console into a Deluxe Reverb. About 28 seconds in, it clearly shows the bass all the way up and the treble all the way down.
Anyone else use similar settings while playing their steel through a tube guitar amp? |
Yes, that's about how I set them, and I've been reiterating those settings here for almost 20 years. Steels have so many highs that you have to push the bass way up and the mids almost fully off to get any real bass and body in your sound. |
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