Sho-Bud 12 stinger mystery at Ebay.

SveinungL · Post by **SveinungL** » 20 May 2003 12:38 pm

This thing which is for sale at ebay looks a bit funny:<a target=_new href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... ory=621</a> It looks like something between a rack/barrel and a later model from Sho Bud. Will it handle a full U-12 copedent? Does anyone here know anything about it? Also looks like 5 of the pedals are not original...

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Thanks Sveinung Lilleheier
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Kentucky Riders[This message was edited by SveinungL on 20 May 2003 at 01:39 PM.]

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 20 May 2003 2:34 pm

This looks like somebody tried to build his own experimental version of a ShoBud from any parts he could find in his scrapbox. It has three different pulling systems, rack and barrel, bellcrank and barrel and bellcranks only, as if he wanted to test which one he likes best. The body and pedal rack are something later, ´80s or so. Will it handle a full U-12 copedent? Probably yes, but I wouldn´t expect a very even playing feel from that guitar, and you´ll need two different wrenches to tune it. I´d stay away from that one.

Regards, Joe H.

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 20 May 2003 7:19 pm

Here's my guess - It probably started out in life as an early '70's Professional-era single twelve with rack & barrels, wide pedals, and curved knees. Over time, someone opted for bellcranks & barrels ala '73 model Pro II's, eventually going to bellcranks with nylon tuners on the first 2 or 3 pedals. The question would be: Why only change certain locations??? My view of the underside is not very good, as I had to look hard to notice the differences! Also, it looks as though after the first two pedals, they've gone to the narrow ones on the rest.

Something else that looks strange is the endplates as the wrap around the back of the guitar...On the picture from the back side, it appears as though they DON'T wrap around the back - But, on the picture of it in the case, on the changer end it looks as if the end does come around.

The case is more than likely original, with the red felt and worn-through areas. I don't remember a model 6160, but then I don't remember Sho~Bud advertising anything but 10 strings in their literature.[This message was edited by Kenny Davis on 20 May 2003 at 08:21 PM.]

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 20 May 2003 10:10 pm

Looks real to me.
I would go with what Brother Davis said...as it started out a regular 12-string Professional...and just added stuff as time went on.
Ricky[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 20 May 2003 at 11:11 PM.]

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 21 May 2003 9:20 am

But this not a Professional-style but a square front body (the picture is not very clear but looks very much like it) and has the later type inlays and the pedal rack is also of the later type without the screws that go through the legs (remember we talked about those Ricky) It may be the other way round, it started out as an ´80s 12-string Pro-I - the ABC pedals have the most modern bellcranks and the ones to the right have the racks, like somebody worked "backwards in time" as he added pedals - or wanted to set up a "demonstration" model for the evolution of the ShoBud pulling systems...[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 21 May 2003 at 10:54 AM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 21 May 2003 10:49 am

I have Sho-Bud literature from the '70s with a photo and brief description of a 12-string universal. The stock color was blue birdseye maple and there are a few of those around. The one on E-Bay could be an early custom made prototype with mixed parts, or someone could have upgraded an early S12U with some later parts. When I get home I'll look at the photo and description to see if I can tell which parts match those in the Sho-Bud literature.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 21 May 2003 11:56 am

I was just looking at Jerry Wallace's web site, and he shows a picture of an '80s Sho-Bud natural finish S12 extended E9 with three pedals (narrow). Possibly the S12 on E-Bay was an earlier extended E9 with 3 wide pedals that someone later converted to a universal by adding more pedals (the narrow kind). The Franklin inspection sticker could have been for the original or for the upgrade. This might well be a playable universal. Combining the barrels on the E9 pedals with bell cranks on the B6 pedals might work, especially if you don't use those different pedals much together.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 21 May 2003 12:30 pm

Whassup with the different colored neck?!

My first theory is that this was originally an S-10 that the owner returned to Music City Mfg. for conversion. But I don't think ShoBud would mix parts from different designs, but rather would put in an entire new undercarriage and pedal rack. Maybe the owner bought the parts and installed them himself.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 22 May 2003 6:28 am

Okay, I have before me a 1975 Sho-Bud/Gretsch color brochure. In it there is a model 6160 (same number as the one on E-Bay) single-neck 12-string extended E9. It has 3 wide floor pedals. The text says it comes with 2 knee levers, but the picture shows 4. Standard color is blue birdseye maple, but it also comes in red, natural, walnut, black. It says the pickups, legs and case are identical to the Pro III Custom, so possibly the undercarriage was too (the pro III Custom is advertised in this same brochure). It looks like the thing on E-Bay started out like this with three wide pedals, maybe four knees, and bell cranks. Then someone wanted to convert it to a universal and did so with a hodge-podge of parts, including some barrels.

The neck is off-color and doesn't look like birdseye. I'm not sure a single 10 would be wide enough for the key head and neck on this thing, so I doubt this is a 10 converted to a 12, especially since it has the correct 12-string model number. Maybe the neck was scratched up and they replaced it or refinished it at some point.

This brochure doesn't have any prices, but I have a 1974 catalog that does. I figure with inflation you could double those twice to get today's value (in parentheses)

Maverick 3/1 $425 ($1,700)
Pro-II 8/2 $1,595 ($6,380)
Custom 8/2 $1,650 ($6,600)

This inflation adjustment is probably an underestimate, but you can see that the most expensive pedal steels today do not out-run these old prices, expecially when you consider the advances in tuning flexibility, pickups, mechanics and weight.

This thing on E-Bay might be of interest to a universal player who likes old Sho-Buds (there were few Sho-Bud universals ever made). But the neck detracts from the appearance (which is really important for a Sho-Bud) and you'd probably need to replace some of the undercarriage and pedals.

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Student of the Steel, Fessy S12U, Emmons S12 E9 P/P, Nashville 400, Fender Squire, Peavey Transtube Supreme into JBL 15", 1968 Gibson J50, '60s Kay arch-top, 7-string Raybro, customized Korean Regal square-neck, roundneck Dobro 90C, 1938 Conn Chu Berry tenor sax, '50s Berg mouthpiece, Hamilton upright piano, Casio keyboard. You make it, I'll play it (sort of)

SveinungL · Post by **SveinungL** » 22 May 2003 7:05 am

Very interesting reading!

If only the Sho Bud could speak!!!!

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Thanks Sveinung Lilleheier
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Kentucky Riders

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 22 May 2003 8:13 am

After looking at the pictures again, I see now that the end plates are normal in the back. Maybe next time I'll use my glasses!

I've got a picture of me taken at Sho~Bud on Broadway in 1973 playing a blue single twelve. If I can find it, I'll post it.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 22 May 2003 11:25 am

Kenny, I'd love to see your pic. It was about 1973 that I moved up to Nashville from Mississippi. I used to go into Sho-Bud and drool over those gorgeous professional pedal steels. But their price was about my annual income in those days. I couldn't imagine how anyone could afford those things. I ended up trading a metal biscuit bridge round-neck Dobro ($325 new) to Bobbe Seymour for a beat up old Maverick, and I had Sho-Bud update it with a new undercarriage and an extra knee lever.

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 23 May 2003 11:17 am

I always wondered what happened to the stuff my Ex-wife threw away!!*#?!

~~W.C.~~