?Why do we tune it this way?

Pat Irvin · Post by **Pat Irvin** » 9 May 2003 2:50 pm

Feel free to flame me. But I'm new to this stuff. I was wondering why the f# and d# are stacked on the 1st and 2nd string instead of the 3rd and 4th? And the G# and E on 1 and 2?

I'm sure there is a very logical reason that I'm missing for it.

But just from jotting stuff down on paper it looks like you could get some pretty easy scale and chord position out of this with the standard setup and a "Franklin" pedal and a the Knee Lever that b's the D# and splits it # & ##.

Please feel free to educate me on what I'm missing out on here.

Best regards,

Pat
[This message was edited by Pat Irvin on 09 May 2003 at 03:51 PM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 9 May 2003 3:35 pm

Buddy Emmons is the creator of that setup and he would be the best to tell us why.

In the interim, I will tell you that as odd as it seems at first, there is some great wisdom behind it.

The reason for this is: Those notes while IN the key/chord structure, are ONLY played WHEN needed. IF placed in consecutive order, they can play havoc with "grips" and dissonances (EVEN though muted) that we best be without.

I will share one thing that will bring this to the forefront. Before pedals there was a very popular tuning called E13th:

E
C#
B
G#
F#
D
B

Now it would seem that this would be a great tuning with pedals like the A pedal. But experience has shown that the two adjacent C#'s CAN clash causing extraneous and unwanted sounds EVEN though one of them is
not picked.

For this reason it is best to have that second C# on a string that the bar does NOT cover UNLESS wanted. Such as the 2nd string being lowered to the C# for a specific lick. Then just as quickly uncover that string again with the bar. This holds true for both the 1st and 2nd strings.

But there is yet another even better reason. The way the fingers and thumb and hand are arranged there are definite advantages to 3 note tripletts and picing patterns they lay beautifully with these strings out of order.

No player ever made better use of this than Hal Rugg, when he was backing Loretta Lynn during her rise to fame. The most classic recording was "One's On the Way". This opening and turn around would be very hard, if not impossible, IF the first and second strings were in consecutive order.

And so on.

God bless Buddy Emmons for his vision and talents to give us these beautifully incredible physics to our chosen and beloved instrument.

carl

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 9 May 2003 3:47 pm

I remember reading that when Buddy first got those 2 extra stgs that they were in the 9 & 10 spot below the low B stg. That would really be hard to get use to! LOL I think he said he did it while out on the road and was unable to change the under carrage around because at the time the Sho-Bud he was playing had everything "WELDED" in place!
JE:-)>

------------------
Emmons D10 8/4 P/P -75'
Fessenden SD-10 3/5
Session 400
Nashville 400
Bandit 112

RON PRESTON · Post by **RON PRESTON** » 10 May 2003 12:59 am

Very well said, Carl.
I remember the VERY 1st time sitting behind a steel, and slowly strumming the strings and listening to each note. When I got to D#,(2nd), and then F#, (1st), I thought, WHAT THE...... WHO THOUGHT THIS UP? Nobody at that time in my "Young Years" was availible to explain just what Carl said. I sat there for I don't know how long trying to figure out just what the heck I could EVER possibly do with THIS tuning. The way #3, #1, #4, & #2 are located (in that order), you can just "BLITZ" the hell out of then to get an incredible "Ban*#%@o" roll out of them. Tommy White can start at fret 24, and end up in the open position doing 4 strings at a time (A reverse run) in less than 2 seconds...maybe faster.

I've seen him do it TOO many times. I can do it fast....But, Not THAT fast.(and be CLEAN TOO) But, it seems easy for me, because of the location of these strings.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 May 2003 7:15 am

Pat, if you practice playing scales without moving the bar, you will quickly come to understand how the string arrangement helps with the alternate thumb and finger picking of the scale.

Likewise, as you learn to move (and pedal) around with chords and chord inversions, you will come to appreciate the fact that those out-of-chord strings are not in your way complicating the grips and causing dissonance.

There is genius in the tuning, at least for the types of music the instrument was invented to play.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 10 May 2003 7:47 am

FWIW, For my E neck tuning my first 4 strings are D#, G#, F#, E.
You can set them up however you want, Pat.

If you listen to the song labeled Pete4 at this link, you will here me playing a Hal Rugg style lick. The string order makes no difference if it's "what works for you". http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/003953.html

Of course if you are trying to learn from Tab, or from an Instructor, it would help immensly to have an identicle tuning (quite likely the standard E9/C6 setup.
[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 10 May 2003 at 09:15 AM.]

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · Post by **Dr. Hugh Jeffreys** » 10 May 2003 10:03 am

Who says you have to tune your steel a certain way? I don't! Who says you must wear 3 picks? I don't! Who says you must play with only 3 fingers? I don't! I use all 5 with 4 bare. Also, If I were to continue playing elec. guitar, I'd find a way to change its tunings; as it is, stacked 4ths with a maj 3rd on top is inadequate for chord variety. The guitar needs many more chord voicings. Hugh

Ulf Edlund · Post by **Ulf Edlund** » 11 May 2003 6:54 am

I guess it's simply because it works.
I also found it a bit awkward at first but when you play you'll notice that it makes sence and that it's convenient.
According to the book "Pedal Steel Guitar" by W Winston/B Keith, Buddy Emmons added the two extra strings on position 9 and 10 in 1962.
The guitar later went back to Sho-Bud and the stings were repositioned to 1 and 2 where they have remained.

Uffe

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 18 May 2003 9:33 pm

A few years ago,at the Dallas steel convention,John Fabian asked me,"Do you use E9 or C6 ?" I repied," Errr,uhh,I use my own tunings and I never thought much about what to call them." John replied,"Oops,I forgot I'm in Texas,where everyone has their own tuning!"

~~W.C.~~

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 May 2003 2:22 am

I am at the moment tuned to this
1 D___b3_____1____7___b5___b9___#5
2 F#___5_____3____9____7 ___4____1
3 G# __6 ___#5____3____1____5____9
4 E____4 ____9____1___#5___b3____7
5 C#___9__maj7 ___6____4____1____5
6 B____1 ____6____5___b3____7____4
7 G#___6 ___#5 ___3____1____5 ___9
8 E ____4 ____9____1___#5___b3 ___7
9 D____b3____1____7___b5___b9___#5
10 B____1 ____6____5___b3____7____4

I have no idea what to call it, some sort of E13 I suspect. It's been there 2 days and I like it.

Strings 3, 2 and 1 decend in pitch.

It blues very well has some western swing feel and hawaiian too. LKL and RKR from E9 still work, LKV and P3 are somewhat usefull still.

But most of all it improvises naturally for me. I think something and it generally arrives.
I am looking for other changes for it's copedent right now.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 May 2003 at 03:26 AM.]