out of tune after pedal use

Martin Zeigler · Post by **Martin Zeigler** » 28 Jun 2013 4:56 pm

Hi, My ShoBud Pro II Custom C6 neck will not go back into tune after using some pedals unless I slip my toe under it and push it up. It seems to be string related rather than the pedal alone. For example, pressing pedal H (or 8?) will lower the 9th and 10th strings. Upon releasing the pedal,string 9 goes right back to pitch while string 10 will be a little flat and need toed. I tried a drop of 3 in 1 and that didn't help. Same with Pedal E (or 2) and 1st, 5th, and 9th strings. The 5th and 9th strings go back to pitch and 1st string needs toed. Any help would be appreciated.
Regards, Zig

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 28 Jun 2013 5:14 pm

Lube your changer fingers and check you return springs for those strings. Hope this helps.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Jun 2013 5:19 pm

When were the scissors last oiled? While other things can cause that, oil turning to gunk there will cause that. Each scissor wants one drop once a year or so

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 29 Jun 2013 2:17 am

Mark,
do your strings mount on a pin or in a slot at the finger?

Martin Zeigler · Post by **Martin Zeigler** » 29 Jun 2013 9:48 am

I will lube the fingers and the scissors. Not sure how to check the return springs... Some have two springs, some have one. The strings mount in a slot. Thanks for your replies.
Regards, Zig

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 29 Jun 2013 9:58 am

Martin,

The return springs are the ones closer to you when the guitar is sitting upside down in the case. The ones below them are raise-helper springs; less numerous and less critical to the changer.

With slots those would be pot metal fingers. I hope it's not the case, but the steel lowering scissors portion of the finger may have worn a notch into the softer, pot-metal upper section of the finger on the strings that are not returning. This occurs in a spot you can't see with the guitar assembled. No way to check for it except to pull out the changer--or at least the problem finger(s). Good description of it in this recent thread (as well as on several older threads)

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... ro+problem

Try the lube approach; hopefully that's all it is and your good to go. If not, you may want to try one of the fixes suggested in the thread above, or in other, older Forum threads on the topic.

Dan

Carl Kilmer · Post by **Carl Kilmer** » 29 Jun 2013 10:12 am

You should also check the crosshafts and make sure that
they move very easy. Any binding will cause your problem.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 29 Jun 2013 10:22 am

Might be overtuned. If you tune at the endplate does it change the open string pitch ?

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 29 Jun 2013 11:40 am

I had a similar issue with my Mullen. Essentially the finger? (Scissor?) would not go back into the changer leaving the string annoyingly sharp. I was advised to take a return spring from a string that did not have a change on it, and swap it with the problem string. This resolved the problem in my case. I think it's a good first step and the easiest fix if it works. Good luck.

Martin Zeigler · Post by **Martin Zeigler** » 30 Jun 2013 4:01 am

Interesting question about tuning from the end plate. That is exactly what is happening to my first sting at least. What is overtuned?
Regards, Zig

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 30 Jun 2013 4:43 am

Overtuned is when the tuning nuts have been tightened so they pull on the changer even when the pedal/knee is released. Fortunately you can fix easily. Unscrew the tuning nut til it barely does anything, then tune the open note. Then tune the change. Unless the guitar just barely has the throw needed or otherwise needs adjustment (or if you recently changed string gauges), that will correct it.

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 30 Jun 2013 5:15 am

Does this happen on both the lowers and the raises?

If it is just the lowers it`s because maybe the spring on the offending string or strings needs tightening up.

Jimmy.

Martin Zeigler · Post by **Martin Zeigler** » 1 Jul 2013 5:04 am

Only some of the lowers stay flat. The rest and the raises are in tune. On string one, I backed off the nylon tuner, tuned to D, pedal down and tune to E whereupon the D is now sharp. Sounds like something's worn? I still have to clean and oil the scissors and try a different hole for the pedal rod. Not sure how to determine which one to use - probably trial and error. etc.
My first thought was the springs. I've looked on line for some but couldn't find any. Maybe just a hardware store of the same size. I've heard of shortening them but I'm not sure how to or how much. Maybe just grind off one loop at a time. Anyway, that's about where I am. Thanks for all your help too, guys.
Regards, Zig

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 1 Jul 2013 5:28 am

Do not mess with springs, changer or anything until you make sure the guitar is not just overtuned (which it sounds like it is). You can make a real mess of things fast.

Do what Lane says. Loosen all the end plate tuning nuts and retune the open strings. Then tighten the endplate tuners one at a time.

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 1 Jul 2013 6:07 am

+1 on this advice...i adjusted my friend's Mullen, that had the same symptoms. Problem solved.

Bob Hoffnar wrote:Do what Lane says. Loosen all the end plate tuning nuts and retune the open strings. Then tighten the endplate tuners one at a time.