I want that Stratocaster sound using a lap steel

[Alan Brookes]

Two things did not work for me when I tried to do that some years ago. According to my notes:

- the spacing of strings below fret 5 was far too narrow to do any single string steel bar hammering. I found slants difficult.

- the top string sounded tinney on most positions of the 5 way pup selector switch after about fret 12, even with a thicker string guage, I think I went upto 0.014. The bottom four strings were, however, more acceptable in tone, the second string marginal.

- the whammy bar did not need to be there, but then I could have unscrewed it...

Then just build a new neck to the dimensions you want. Building a neck is one of the easiest jobs there is, especially when you don't have to worry about it being fingered. I know this because I've been building acoustic instruments for nearly 50 years. The craft of building a neck is to build it with just the right height that the strings don't rattle, and just the right contour that it fits in your hand comfortably, but if you're going to play with a tone bar then anyone with no experience whatsoever could build one.

[Kay Das]

Agree.

Then just build a new neck to the dimensions you want

Bob Littleton of West Coast did exactly that for me for the Steelocaster. He used double truss rods for the extra tension (8 strings).

I think Jim Kerr of Edinburgh also did something similar on his version of a Strat lap steel...



Kay

[James Kerr]

Agree.

Then just build a new neck to the dimensions you want

Bob Littleton of West Coast did exactly that for me for the Steelocaster. He used double truss rods for the extra tension (8 strings).

I think Jim Kerr of Edinburgh also did something similar on his version of a Strat lap steel...



Kay

Yep Kay, I mess around with these things all the time here is a Cooder toon played on a Steelocaster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPVb6mdN-dI

James.

[Kay Das]

That is a nice version of "Yellow Roses" and the tone on your Steelocaster is nice. BTW Hank Snow had a very good steel guitarist, whose name I do not have, but check out also his "Oahu Rose", I think you may like it....

Interesting that you used the (middle position) 3 of the 5 way switch (bridge pup, I presume) . My favourites are position 5 (bridge pup) and position 1 (neck pup) which I use for blues stuff. I can get what is reported to be a "Jimi Hendricks-like sound" with overdrive in the amplifier.

Here are some samplers of my Steelocaster in a variety of settings:
https://soundcloud.com/kay-das/marvin-o ... -sampler-1

The first eight samples are with position 5 (bridge pup) and the last sample " Have You Ever Loved.." is with the switch at positions 1 and 3.

Good to hear from you,

Kay

[David Mason]

Mr. Das, can that 8-string "strat" be played in the upright position as well? From the picture I can see, the neck doesn't look too thick. In both classic blues styles like what Ry Cooder and Roy Rogers play, and the more modern stuff Sonny Landreth is doing, being able to fret notes is also important. To play that you definitely have the action somewhat raised, but the little runs and the behind-the-slide fretting Landreth does are available. My favorite "upright" slide guitar these days is this:



It's a 1999 Korean-made Schecter 7-string "C-7+" and it's a fine sounding thing. It's "superstrat" shaped, but 7-strings were still pretty new and Schecter did everything they could to put this into Les Paul territory tonally. I just flattened out and raised the bridge saddles and made a nut about 0.060" higher than normal. There are a variety of 8-string underarm guitars out now, but from I can tell they're all geared towards screamo heavy-metal - basswood bodies, active EMG pickups etc.

Have you ever tried the West Coast upright, with a brass slide? I usually tune my 7-string BEBEG#BE low to high, and that extra low note gives it a heck of a thump. With 8 strings you could sneak a 6 in there (C#) and go all sorts of ways.

I can't help it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvVOgn4RYKw

[James Kerr]

That is a nice version of "Yellow Roses" and the tone on your Steelocaster is nice. BTW Hank Snow had a very good steel guitarist, whose name I do not have, but check out also his "Oahu Rose", I think you may like it....

Interesting that you used the (middle position) 3 of the 5 way switch (bridge pup, I presume) . My favourites are position 5 (bridge pup) and position 1 (neck pup) which I use for blues stuff. I can get what is reported to be a "Jimi Hendricks-like sound" with overdrive in the amplifier.

Here are some samplers of my Steelocaster in a variety of settings:
https://soundcloud.com/kay-das/marvin-o ... -sampler-1

The first eight samples are with position 5 (bridge pup) and the last sample " Have You Ever Loved.." is with the switch at positions 1 and 3.

Good to hear from you,

Kay

Kay, I had a listen and liked "Oahu Rose" very much, if there is a way to get that one down I will sure try it. Hank's Steel Guitar player was Kayton Roberts from 1967 onward, although he didn't play Steel Guitar at first, a very fine player indeed.

James.

[Kay Das]

This is turning out to be a fascinating thread, thanks to David Cook for initiatiing it!

The video from David Mason was inspiring: playing a strat with three fingers and a slider...whew!

I realize that there are two schools of thought with respect to association between a lap steel and a strat:
- steel with a strat sound
- strat with a steel sound

Mr. Das, can that 8-string "strat" be played in the upright position as well? From the picture I can see, the neck doesn't look too thick. In both classic blues styles like what Ry Cooder and Roy Rogers play, and the more modern stuff Sonny Landreth is doing, being able to fret notes is also important. To play that you definitely have the action somewhat raised, but the little runs and the behind-the-slide fretting Landreth does are available. ...Have you ever tried the West Coast upright, with a brass slide? I usually tune my 7-string BEBEG#BE low to high, and that extra low note gives it a heck of a thump. With 8 strings you could sneak a 6 in there (C#) and go all sorts of ways.

Firstly, David, if you permit I would prefer we go with first names! I subscribe to the first school of thought. I have no possibility of fretting notes on the Steelocaster as the strings are raised purposely high for a lap steel. Fretting would be the domain of the lead guitarist if there was one. Although it would be visually more exciting on a stage, I have not tried playing the Steelocaster upright, and maybe I should. A standard keyboard stand permits standing when playing (I currently use one), and allows (a) moving with the beat and (b) moving right when playing the higher frets to gain "arm-room" or moving left to play those high order palm harmonics.

Kay

[Alan Brookes]

The problem that the "bottleneck" guitarist has is that he wants to play slide on the high notes, which demands that the strings be raised above the frets, yet he still wants to finger the bass notes. To the steel guitarist this immediately becomes irreconcilable: either you want to play with a tone bar or not.
You're trying to have it both ways. As the old addage says, you want to have your cake and eat it too.

[Bob Stone]

Dave,

I'll be brief: Buy an Allison.

I'm very happy with mine. It sounds very Fender-like, but unlike the old Fenders the string spacing is 3/8 at the bridge with only the slightest taper at the nut, string height above the fretboard is ample for picking deep and pick blocking, and the bass strings are plenty strong.

And how many owners of old Fender steels have fantasies about custom colors but don't want to "violate" a vintage instrument by refinishing it? Now's your chance to have that snazzy custom color. Perhaps sonic blue?

Just sitting down to my surf green Allison relaxes me...

Go for it Dave!

Bob

[Owen McCrory]

[quote="Stephen Abruzzo"]For starters, Cooder's Strat doesn't sound like a Strat because.....he doesn't have Strat pups in it. He has a lap steel Valco pup in the bridge and a Teisco pup in the neck, which is an outstanding clear pup for slide work.

This may be slightly off topic...here's clip of David Lindley & Jackson Browne discussing the "Coodercaster"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVh2WjL-CnM

[Chris Walke]

Here is one that I put together a few years ago. I found this body and neck sticking out of a trash can 20 years ago. The pickguard and it's components were missing but the Jag/JMaster style trem unit worked very nicely. I had a Fender neck on it for a long time and it was a very cool surf guitar. A few years back I decided to set it up as a lap steel with the original neck remounted. I put together a straight bridge and made a tall nut for it. The strap buttons are positioned so that you can stand to play. It is an awsome sounding guitar for blues and rockabilly style steel. When I first found it I thought it was an Italian made EKO but after many internet searches I finally came to the conclusion it was an EKO copy made by Tiesco in Japan. I used to play it as a lap steel with the band Magnolia Mountain on a couple of songs but rarely get it out anymore and when I do it's just for fun here at home.

Think I need to move. Nobody in my neighborhood throws anything like THAT away. Dang!

[David Cook]

Bob,

I love the look of that Allison!!! I still plan on coming by.

[Robert Daniels]

Why not go Lowell George style? He was hugely influential to me and nails the slide strat sound. I believe he tuned to open A and had a tele pickup in the bridge. I have been thinking of going that way myself for one guitar. He used whatever 70's strat (heavy) that was around. Of course, the Dumble amp was a big part of the sound.

[David Mason]

And for those who believe compressors were invented by Satan to make steel players lazy, Lowell George daisy-chained two of 'em right in a row! Of course - look what happened to him...

[Bob Stone]

Dave Cook:

Okay, just give me a call.

All the best,

Bob