Tone problems

Nick Waugh · From: United Kingdom

Hi Guys

I have a Carter DB10 with George L model 10-1. I have a Hilton volume pedal and play though an Evans FT500. My problem is that the top strings sound painfully thin, especially when I am playing with a band. I have recently purchased brass national picks to try and thicken/warm the tone, but I still have the same problem. I was advised on the forum that It is all in the right hand, and I needed to work on this. However, no matter what part of the pick I pluck the string with, it still sounds thin. At my last rehearsal, I took the treble down to 0 and had bass and body on 5, but still sounded thin on top strings.

Confusingly, I just recently recorded with a band, and the steel sounded warm and toneful. The studio engineer said that did not need to add anything to my sound. He said the sound I was hearing was purely the sound of the steel/amp. Also when I played a gig last week, the sound was really good. Why does it sound so different when rehearsing? have had a professional check my amp, who found nothing wrong with it. Can anyone make any suggestions? It is driving me crazy!!!!

Steve Hitsman · From: Waterloo, IL

If it sounds good to everyone except you, it may be because of where you're situating yourself in relation to your amp. Try raising the speaker to the level of your head or using an amp stand to aim it toward your ears.

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Keep in mind some roooms sound really good and some sound really bad.

Dave Simonis · From: Stevens Point, WI USA

I find the Hilton/Evans combo can get really bright. I prefer to use my Goodrich Matchbox and pedal with my Evans instead. I find the Hilton VP to give me a clean/brighter tone, great for an amp like my NV112 whereas my Goodrich combo gives me a warmer/thicker tone. Just my opinion, but maybe for practice try a different VP.
_________________
Dave Simonis

Fiddle: Zeta, Arthur Conner, many others.../Steel: GFI SD-10 Ultra.../Mandolin: Breedlove.../Guitar: Gibson, Fender, Taylor.../Amps: Peavey NV112, Evans FET 500.../Others: Hilton, Goodrich, Stereo Steel, Pendulum Pre-amp...

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Do you have your speaker pointing right at your ear? If you do, you are getting the concentrated beam of high frequency that comes off the cone. Try pointing the speaker away from your ear so you hear less of the highs.

Stuart Legg · Posted 25 Jun 2013 11:19 am

Volume changes tone. I've noticed at practice player's amps sound totally different than at the gig.
Like Jeff Newmen said "take your steel and amp out by the railroad tracks and dial in your settings while a train is going by and you'll pretty much get about the best sound you're going to get at a gig.

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

Probably the room or the guitar player my be using to much bass or you may be out of tune with the symbals. Y'all may think I'm kidding but I'm not. Our drummer had a set of symbals that made my guitar sound terrible when I was set up close to them. Had him change symbals and guitar sounded good then.
Go figure Confused

_________________
Henry Matthews

D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Low voltage in practice room?

Drew Pierce · From: Arkansas, USA

I agree with those who lean towards the acoustic environment to account for these perceived differences. In a small, live space the sound can be bright and edgy, but take the same rig and settings to a big room with lots of absorbing surfaces and it will sound completely different.

I learned that if I mixed my amp to sound nice and warm in a small practice room, it would often sound muddy and bass-ey in a big room full of people. More high end is needed to cut through the sound of a bunch people partying in a large club, for example. The same is true in a big theater. I learned this when I asked another steel player to play my rig in a big club while I listened from the far side of the room. The steel sounded nothing like it did when I was sitting right next to the amp. I went back and dialed up more high and cut the bass and middle -- more than I actually liked -- but the sound out in the room was better, like what I was after. I had to learn to deal with it.

High frequency signals don't carry as strong over distance as lows, especially bass tones, which tend to hold up more in the mix as you get farther from the amp. It should be noted, however, this equation changes if you mic the amp into the PA (preferred) or run a line out from the amp to the mixing board (less preferred). Then you have to rely on the sound person to get it right. Good luck with that.
_________________
Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals.

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Nick,
Drew has summed it up quite well.
A typical guitar amp doesn't disperse the highs very well over a long distance. A single cone speaker is considered "near field" The entire sperctrum it puts out can only be heard within quite a small fraction of a radius in front of the amp.
Let me add:
This is precisely why I stopped carrying large 200w guitar amps in an attempt to fill a music venue.
I now use my Fender Blues Deluxe as my personal monitor, (30W). I mic into the PA leaving the dispersion job to the PA mains speakers that are precisely designed for that function.
There are a few small rooms I play that I don't mic my amp but it is getting to be a rarity.

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

How much "open" space that is behind your amp has a lot to do with what you hear.

Peter Nylund · From: Finland

Bad quality cables can cause unwanted drop outs in certain frequensies.
_________________
I know my playing is a bit pitchy, but at least my tone sucks

Nick Waugh · From: United Kingdom

Thanks for your feedback, I have found it all very valuable in terms of y understanding of tone.

However I have found the root of the problem. I have an Evans FET 500. For those of you who are not familiar with the amp, it has 2 switches called 'depth' and 'expand'. When I first got the amp I decided quite quickly through comparing the sound with switches on then off, that it sounded fuller and richer with these functions on. I had a gig yesterday, and before leaving I was tinkering with my amp settings and accidently turned off the 'expand' switch. I noticed the harsh thin sound disappeared and was replaced with a rich warm tone. All this time I have had the bass setting on 5, body on 8 and treble on 0 and still it sounded thin. I tried my new setting out at the gig last night and was really happy with my sound for the first time. The top strings no longer sounded harsh and painfully thin.

Hallelujah

Drew Pierce · From: Arkansas, USA

The expand mode actually sounds better, in my opinion, but you have to EQ the rest of the settings to optimize its effect. But if you're happy wit the sound you're getting now, let 'er rip.
_________________
Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals.

Joshua Gibson · From: Arizona, USA

HA!!! don't even get Me started on this subject... Its as simple as speaker placement and room acoustics, I have a weekly gig that I swear by all things holy I can NEVER get My steel to sound worth jack!!!... Contrarily, I have a number of other jobs(in other rooms) that sound like a million bucks.
Believe Me, You can have the best gear, the best intonation and the best tone You've ever heard and You get a bad room......it will more then likely to suck, to You at least.
_________________
'83 Mullen custom D-10 8x5.
Mesa Lonestar classic 112 custom cab.
Session 400 Ltd, Nashville 1000,
Telonics, Zoom, BJS,
Goldtone BS, LITM, OS Dobros.
Fender, G&L, Gibson, Ibanez guitars.

Jimmy Gibson · From: Cornwall, England

I know this may seem a bit odd, but it may be worth a try ,on one of my gigs I mistakenly put the jack plugs into the wrong jack sockets on my VP Embarassed

what I did was put the lead from the amp input into the VP input and the output from the VP into the output jack on the steel.

When I started playing I could not understand why the steel sounded so mellow, but I just tuned the treble up on the amp and it sounded ok.

Give it a go sounds great for the Hawaiian tunes using a digital delay.

Jimmy.

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