Help!

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 4 May 2003 9:19 am

Well, I just changed strings and it took me a while to clean the blood off my steel and the surrounding area. (I couldn't find my guitar tech.)
Am I suffering from some kinda thing that causes me to be clumsy or is this a common
malady that effects others?
I would think that just about all steels today are pretty well built and most of the sound is coming from the players technique,
so I doubt that I'd sound much better than I do on this ol' Rus-ler.
Are there any steels out there that are made that are easy to re-string? (I lied about the guitar tech!)
I have been thinking of saving some gig money for a D-10 and could use some direction.
Thanx...Jack

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RUS-LER S-10
NV 400
Randall rack amp system
TELE's & STRAT
FENDER TWIN
Seymour Duncan 50W tube amp

[This message was edited by Jack Francis on 04 May 2003 at 10:26 AM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 4 May 2003 9:30 am

Yes.

No.

Start at one end, take one wrap around the string with the 7th and above strings before tightening the peg, making sure that you have a couple wraps, make a tiny loop as far to the peg as you can and pull the string snapping it off so there's not a sharp end sticking out. Don't take a dally around your finger when you pull though, especially on the .010s...

Possibly a super hard snipper, or the wife's best fingernail clipper.

On the large ones it's the same but no wrap of the string is needed.

Cranks help.

A little bleeding pleases The Muse. A Lot pleases her more..

EJL

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 4 May 2003 9:35 am

It's good to leave a nice bit of stub sticking out of the peg so that when you are frantically trying to remove the broken string in the middle of a song you can penetrate finger flesh straight and true and make said muse positively ecstatic.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 4 May 2003 10:39 am

Don't know first hand, but from reading on the Forum keyless heads are quicker and easier to restring once you get use to them. However, others swear keyless heads have noticeably less sustain, especialy in the high registers. MSA puts the 1 and 10 winders a little further from the nut, which makes it easier to string them. Also MSA has a split head, which makes it easier to string 6 and 7. I am very impressed with MSA's rethinking these kinds of small things rather than just duplicating the limited designs of the past. Maybe if I say enough good stuff they'll give me a discount on a new Millenium, which is the only way I could afford one now.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 4 May 2003 3:17 pm

is it easier to restring a keyless guitar?Looks like it,but I have never tried one tho.

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Bruce Derr · Post by **Bruce Derr** » 4 May 2003 6:20 pm

I'd agree that it's easier on a keyless... at least it is on mine. Changing a string on my Kline is faster and easier than on any of my keyhead guitars. Also, tuning is easier (more smooth and precise) because there is no gear slop. There is no lack of sustain, either, that's for sure.[This message was edited by Bruce Derr on 04 May 2003 at 07:23 PM.]

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 4 May 2003 7:51 pm

JMO: Since your hand is laying on the strings behind the bar, damping the strings, I don't see where there should be any difference in sustain. BTW I own a Williams keyless, NO SUSTAIN PROBLEM.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 5 May 2003 6:25 am

Keyless guitars CAN be faster than keyed, but this depends on several factors. What one gains in one area may lose in another.

IF one finds a good, efficient way to prestretch the string, before tightening it, then it can be quite easy. But this is a big if.

Keyless guitars, ALL else being equal, have less sustain than the SAME guitar with keys. This is due to the resonance (overtones) of that part of the string between the nut and the key; EVEN with the hand muting the strings beyond the bar.

This was first pointed out to me by John Fabian of Carter Guitars. I later found out thru experiencing it, that he was exactly correct.

True, keyless guitars do HAVE sustain. And in many cases the sustain is quite satisfactory to its owner. However the same guitar with keys will have more sustain. Where it is first noticed is if one is used to a given sustain passed the 12th fret on a keyed guitar, and then plays the same guitar that is keyed. There is a decided difference. It is no myth.

carl

Bruce Derr · Post by **Bruce Derr** » 5 May 2003 9:14 am

Hmmm... for resonance of the string between nut and key to be a factor, this part of the string would have to be vibrating... and it's hard to picture how any vibrations between nut and key could benefit sustain. I would think that any energy that leaks away from the vibrating part of the string would reduce sustain. Of course I respect Carl's viewpoint (and Mr. Fabian's), and I'm not pretending to be an expert. The only keyless I've used is my Kline, so I can't comment on Mr. Fabian's design. I'm just having trouble picturing the physics behind this phenomenon. I always thought that, everything else being equal, a keyless would have more sustain, because there is virtually no string length beyond the nut to cause unwanted resonances that would sap sustain. (I would also suppose that the nut design might ultimately be a bigger factor.)

Incidentally, the Kline does not require that the string be prestretched at all. It's very easy and quick. You need to use a hex wrench, but you don't need sidecutters, so tool-wise, it's a wash.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 5 May 2003 12:54 pm

Bruce, there is a physical explanation for how vibrations behind the nut can effect vibrations in front of it. The wire strings are not infinitely flexible at a given point. So imagine the point where the string passes over the nut. That point is like the fulcrum of a see-saw. If the string wants to vibrate in one direction in front of the nut, it will be more free to do so if it can vibrate a little in the opposite direction behind the nut. Not being able to do so could conceivably damp the string vibrations. This implies that the middle strings should have better sustain than the outer strings on keyed guitars, and all should have less sustain on keyless guitars. However, that would only seem to apply to strings played open. Once the bar and hand intervene it is hard to imagine how what happens behind the nut matters. Nevertheless, even if we don't know the explanation, if people who have done side-by-side tests notice more sustain, then maybe there's something to it, and we just can't explain it. It is interesting that few top pros play keyless guitars, in spite of the obvious tuning advantages. But some people just don't like the untraditional look of keyless guitars.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 May 2003 1:54 pm

I don't think "looks" has anything to do with it where the pro's are concerned. I'd guess over 95% of the pro's play keyed guitars! If there was any overwhelming advantage to the keyless variety, that's what they'd be using now. Pro's like improvements just as much as you or I, and they make their living with the thing. They're not about to "choose 2nd best" just for vanity's sake.

On the subject of efficient string-changing, it comes...in time (just like the rest of our skills

).[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 05 May 2003 at 02:56 PM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 6 May 2003 7:38 am

Umm... Now that I think about it, when I changed my old Maverick from the original solid keyhead and nut to a keyhead with rollers, it changed the whole sound of the guitar, with or without the bar and hand. So what happens at the nut and behind seems to come through even with the bar and hand on the strings. This tends to make me think keyless heads will sound different and possibly have less sustain. The MSA people certainly think so, and don't offer keyless heads with the new Milleniums.

Bruce Derr · Post by **Bruce Derr** » 6 May 2003 8:41 am

I can believe the nut would have an effect. But the resonance theory... It would be interesting to experiment by damping the strings between nut and key, and listen for a change in sustain.

Sorry this has drifted off topic a bit.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 May 2003 9:28 am

On my Stringmaster, I dampen the strings behind the nut with rubber grommets. The sympathetic vibration on the middle strings creates undesirable beat frequencies against certain notes.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 6 May 2003 1:02 pm

Actually nobody has been off of the topic,
these are exactly the comments I was hoping for.
I really don't mind changing strings and really do know how.
I have been considering a move to a double neck and was wondering about the difference between keyless and keys.
I appreciate all of the comments.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 8 May 2003 6:51 am

The only time I've draw blood was when a string snapped while playing, never while changing them.

I have a keyed guitar. You do cut them to length before inserting tham on the tuning peg, right?

I'm unusual in that I do not use wire cutters. I only carry a small pair of needle nose pliers. I bend and break the strings, instead of cutting them.

BTW, http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum7/HTML/002246.html